The greatness of a nation and its moral progress

katmandu
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:23 pm

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” Mahatma Ghandi

To me, at least, it seems like on some level this applies to people, too. Thank you Fox Hill Farm for initiating this and for giving back so much. All class.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-ra ... orses.aspx
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:08 pm

I so hope this vision is realized on a national level. I will certainly do all I can to support it. I've thought this couldn't be accomplished without a national commissioner's office with enforcement powers by, hey, maybe this can work.

I do think it will be very difficult to get some state racing commissions and some tracks (management and owners) to not just buy in but actively support it. That's where major roadblocks have been in some areas, and it will be key in my opinion.

A big thanks to Rick, Victoria and the others who have organized this initiative!
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Ridan_Remembered
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:23 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:I so hope this vision is realized on a national level. I will certainly do all I can to support it. I've thought this couldn't be accomplished without a national commissioner's office with enforcement powers by, hey, maybe this can work.

I do think it will be very difficult to get some state racing commissions and some tracks (management and owners) to not just buy in but actively support it. That's where major roadblocks have been in some areas, and it will be key in my opinion.

A big thanks to Rick, Victoria and the others who have organized this initiative!
Totally agree. A huge thanks to Rick, Victoria and others who are attempting this difficult task. If I knew how to help, I would.
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:48 pm

A few more of the details are in the TDN stories. I expect they will be working with current entities like CANTER as this develops further. No need to re-invent some of these strategies.

With Lofty Goals, Porter Starts Horse Welfare Operation
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/wi ... operation/
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:19 am

New Facebook page for those so inclined to follow along...

Fox Hill Farm shared a Page.
4 hrs ·
We hope that you will "like" the NTWO Facebook page and share with all your friends. Thank you.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/NTWO.org/posts/


This is the most recent post:

ntwo.org
56 mins ·
We have been asked who the four Thoroughbreds were who were obtained at Monday's auction by outbidding the killpen buyer. We identified these three:

Red Hot Sensation, who last raced on 2/8/18 at Delta Downs.

Coast Guard Kid, who last raced on 1/20/18 at Fair Grounds.

Cajuness is an unraced filly who was came from a training center in LA.

We have been told by the person who bought the four horses that the fourth is an unraced filly named Twirling Sky.

We have a short video that we have from the sale of the treatment of Red Hot Sensation that we can share with interested parties.
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Dusty
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Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:52 am

Sparrow Castle wrote:I so hope this vision is realized on a national level. I will certainly do all I can to support it. I've thought this couldn't be accomplished without a national commissioner's office with enforcement powers by, hey, maybe this can work.

I do think it will be very difficult to get some state racing commissions and some tracks (management and owners) to not just buy in but actively support it. That's where major roadblocks have been in some areas, and it will be key in my opinion.

A big thanks to Rick, Victoria and the others who have organized this initiative!

YES!!! This should be supported and MAJOR KUDOS to all involved!
May they run with the WIND
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:26 pm

ntwo.org
1 hr ·
It's been a few weeks since the announcement of the formation of our organization, so we want to update on what we've been doing.

First, we are thrilled with the people we are putting into our organization. Ecstatic, really. We weren't looking for just names to plug into a spot, but good people who have a deep passion and desire to be part of this. We'll announce some positions soon, but we couldn't have any better people helping us and we're so grateful and blessed to have them coming on board with us.

As previously noted, we are starting our efforts in Louisiana. Louisiana represents the "perfect storm." They have a state-bred program that results in a substantial number of horses being bred, but they don't have much in the way of resources to rehome these horses at the end of their careers. They are near the Mexican border, and they have two notorious "kill buyers" -- Thompson/Sanders and the Stanleys -- operating in close proximity.

There have been many good people working on the problem in Louisiana for many years. We feel for them as we've seen just a little of what they've been up against. When we make the progress we intend to make in the coming months, it is due to some very smart and savvy and dedicated people who have been fighting the good fight over the past years.

We filed for our 501(c)3 status in January, and are somewhat impatiently awaiting approval. We strongly believe in public accountability and transparency when one obtains public funding. We will not accept any donations until we can guarantee our contributors that their donations are tax-deductible. While we may be "chomping at the bit," the reality is that we've needed this time to put the right people into place, talk to the tracks, racing commission and others, find suitable farms for rehab and layups, get our website ready, and more. We have to have the proper foundation to build upon.

We have tried to respond to all who have reached out to us. If we missed someone, we apologize and ask that you contact us again. We thank you for your support.
https://www.facebook.com/NTWO.org/
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:22 pm

ntwo.org
4 hrs ·
We had more meetings this week. On Monday night, we met with Boyd Gaming execs as well as some LA racing commissioners. The next day we met with more racing commissioners and were also introduced to track executives from other tracks in the state. We have been very well received -- the tracks and commissioners are indicating that they very much want to do what they can within the law. The expectation is that we will be meeting again in the next couple weeks when every involved party can attend to hammer out a plan for the entire state.

This is all unfortunately too little too late to be able to prevent what appears to be right around the corner, which is a CBS News national report that is expected to be about Thoroughbred Racing sending its horses to slaughter. They were filming on Monday and Tuesday in Louisiana which is how we found out about the upcoming segment. It is expected to air either on Thursday or Friday before the Derby.

This is why NTWO and all the other rehoming efforts are so important. If one somehow doesn't feel in the heart and mind that it is not at all acceptable for racing's horses to end up in killpens or at slaughter, they must at least acknowledge how damning it is for the sport. Racing must take a stand for the horses and for the sport that sending horses to slaughter (and this includes easy disposal through local livestock auctions where the horses will be bought by slaughter buyers unless a rescue is there to outbid for those horses) will not be tolerated. We must come together on this issue for the sake of the horses and the sport. If not, then the damning reports for the public to see will continue pounding the stake into the heart of racing.
https://www.facebook.com/NTWO.org/?hc_r ... YI&fref=nf
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Treve
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:37 pm

I hope CBS will provide a balanced perspective... but I doubt it. Wonder if NTWO can reach out to them, or possibly another Network like NBC?
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
Ziggypop
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:27 pm

Treve wrote:I hope CBS will provide a balanced perspective... but I doubt it. Wonder if NTWO can reach out to them, or possibly another Network like NBC?
There is no "balanced" perspective. The slaughter issue is exactly what it is. And the industry has dragged its feet and swept it under the table for far far too long. And too many still want to take the easy way out by dumping them.

No one talks about the broodmares, barren, pregnant and babies by their sides who end up in the slaughter pipeline-which is utterly appalling. Slaughter is a cancer on the entire industry.
BaroqueAgain1
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:45 pm

And not just the TB industry. Premarin foals, aged mares, lame QHs, ponies outgrown by young owners...you name it. Thousands of discarded horses of every breed and age end up at slaughter.
This is a problem that involves every horse/pony owner in the country.
What do we do with all the unwanted horses? How can we find a humane solution for all of them, when we can't even get the TB racing industry to get its act together? :(
barbaro111
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:52 pm

Ziggypop wrote:
Treve wrote:I hope CBS will provide a balanced perspective... but I doubt it. Wonder if NTWO can reach out to them, or possibly another Network like NBC?
There is no "balanced" perspective. The slaughter issue is exactly what it is. And the industry has dragged its feet and swept it under the table for far far too long. And too many still want to take the easy way out by dumping them.

No one talks about the broodmares, barren, pregnant and babies by their sides who end up in the slaughter pipeline-which is utterly appalling. Slaughter is a cancer on the entire industry.

amen to what you said.
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Katewerk
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:14 pm

barbaro111 wrote:
Ziggypop wrote:
Treve wrote:I hope CBS will provide a balanced perspective... but I doubt it. Wonder if NTWO can reach out to them, or possibly another Network like NBC?
There is no "balanced" perspective. The slaughter issue is exactly what it is. And the industry has dragged its feet and swept it under the table for far far too long. And too many still want to take the easy way out by dumping them.

No one talks about the broodmares, barren, pregnant and babies by their sides who end up in the slaughter pipeline-which is utterly appalling. Slaughter is a cancer on the entire industry.
amen to what you said.
Along with feral horses. With the numbers involved, demanding the end of slaughter is just handing the keys to those who want the industry destroyed for its own sake -- just as they do when they blame the purebred dog fancy for "shelter dogs", while importing tens of thousands from overseas for the retail "rescue" market.

Ending slaughter won't make them stop.

No one talks about improving slaughter methods to make it more humane, and they should. Better it be done in North America with humane controls in place, than ship them to some ****hole country. I'm not talking about TB specifically here, or excusing those who grind them up without regard for the animal, but of the wider problem of what to do with horses who have no purpose, and no home.
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Falinadin
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:32 pm

This is a thought I've had.

With basically every other animal species in the U.S., there is an overpopulation "outlet". Dogs and cats that nobody wants end up at shelters, most of which eventually euthanize unwanted animals and are government sponsored. Tens of thousands of dogs and cats are euthanized every year. Rabbits, guinea pigs, etc are often accepted at these shelters are well.
Livestock (cattle, sheep, goats, pigs) have auctions and slaughter. Some shelters are capable of taking a few, but the majority of unwanted livestock goes to auction and slaughter.

What about horses? In the past horses were like livestock and went to auction and slaughter. Then that became unfavorable. But we don't have thousands of government funded shelters capable of taking unwanted horses and euthanizing ones that don't get adopted. There is no place for unwanted horses to go now that slaughter has been outlawed.

I find it frustrating when people blame the horse racing industry, AQHA, etc for not doing more... when nobody else has ever found a solution for any animal. Every animal production system we have (dog showing, dairy industry, wool, etc) is able to produce animals because of their "outlets". Purebred dogs get sold to families, taking the place of a shelter dog that ends up euthanized. What would these industries look like if sheep and cattle couldn't go to slaughter, and dogs couldnt be euthanized by the thousands? My guess is they'd start to fall apart.

I absolutely applaud the efforts of people advocating for TB aftercare, I used to own an OTTB myself. I will be thrilled if a day comes when there are no homeless or slaughtered horses. I just... don't know how anyone expects the TB industry to find a solution for something that nobody else has managed to fix.
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Katewerk
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:38 am

Falinadin wrote:Purebred dogs get sold to families, taking the place of a shelter dog that ends up euthanized. What would these industries look like if sheep and cattle couldn't go to slaughter, and dogs couldnt be euthanized by the thousands? My guess is they'd start to fall apart.
That's not how it works, though. Animal ownership isn't a zero sum game. The sentence makes as much sense as "Thoroughbreds get sold to racing ownerships, taking the place of a mustang that ends up euthanized."

The family that wants a 10lb non-shedding Bichon Frise isn't going to turn to a 35 lb pit bull from a shelter. It doesn't suit their needs or their lifestyle. It sheds, it's too big, and the genetics harbour lower thresholds for dog aggression and reduced bite inhibition.

They'll go dogless, and the pit bull still gets euthanized.

The breeder perpetuating the heritage or working breed isn't responsible for thousands of abandoned pit bulls. Those will be bred with or without us. But the animal rights lobby will use them as leverage, not because they want to save shelter animals or stop slaughter, but because they want the end of companion/working animals altogether.
BaroqueAgain1
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:35 am

As long as there is a population of horses for whom there ARE no homes, whether due to age, illness or lameness, there needs to be a humane way to end their lives. Some method that is painless, doesn't create fear and panic in the horses, and that doesn't shove them into crowded trailers for a long, difficult trip to a slaughterhouse.
I'm not opposed to horses being harvested for meat, since it makes a Circle-Of-Life sort of sense to me, if it could be done humanely. As I understand it, if a horse is euthanized using drugs, that makes their meat unsuitable for consumption.
If the US could set up a network of slaughterhouses that are modern and humane, with a painless (or as painless as possible), mechanical way to instantly kill a horse, that meat could supply anything from zoos to food banks.
But that would be expensive and I'm pretty sure that whoever is presently in the business of slaughter wants to keep it as cheap as possible, no matter how awful it is for the horses. :evil:
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Falinadin
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:53 am

Katewerk wrote: That's not how it works, though. Animal ownership isn't a zero sum game. The sentence makes as much sense as "Thoroughbreds get sold to racing ownerships, taking the place of a mustang that ends up euthanized."
That's true, at least at that stage in a horse's life. After their racing career is over though, and they are going to be trail/pleasure/etc horses, then yes adopting an OTTB may take the place of a mustang. (Funny enough I was in the market for a mustang when the OTTB I bought came along!)

I think your points are completely valid, and they show that there are even fewer homes for animals then there would seem to be. I'm not trying to bash dog or livestock breeding, as I breed dairy goats myself. My goats that aren't show quality sometimes go to be pets. And I fully acknowledge that there are lots of goats that go to slaughter who maybe could have had a pet home. But thats how the industry stays sustainable. If slaughtering goats were suddenly made illegal, all the pet homes would fill up extremely quickly, I wouldnt be able to even give away any goats, and I'd have to stop breeding because I can't keep 50 of them. The good quality goats would still have some demand, but they're not all born the same (I'm guessing not all pups in a litter are show quality, I've never shown dogs).

Anyway, the tl;dr is that I feel bad that the TB industry is getting so much focus when they've been put between a rock and a hard place. I don't know the answer.
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Treve
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:08 am

Ziggypop wrote:
Treve wrote:I hope CBS will provide a balanced perspective... but I doubt it. Wonder if NTWO can reach out to them, or possibly another Network like NBC?
There is no "balanced" perspective. The slaughter issue is exactly what it is. And the industry has dragged its feet and swept it under the table for far far too long. And too many still want to take the easy way out by dumping them.

No one talks about the broodmares, barren, pregnant and babies by their sides who end up in the slaughter pipeline-which is utterly appalling. Slaughter is a cancer on the entire industry.
A balanced perspective would show that while the industry has dragged its feet about this issue, not all people who are involved in racing are callous, heartless money-mongers who view horses as machines to be discarded when no longer of use. A balanced perspective would look at what is being done, from the people on the frontline going to auctions and trying to outbid killbuyers, to people like Foxhill creating a whole new organisation whose goal is not only to act as a watch dog but provide advice and organisation to those individuals on the frontlines to help horses. And even if they didn't go so far as to examine those individuals and stories, a balanced perspective would offer solutions and suggestions as to what can be done, even whilst demanding accountability.
That is what I am talking about. I am certainly not saying there is an upside or balanced perspective to slaughter - but there are multiple narratives they can choose, and the one which would be a disservice to the horses, would be the narrative stating that racing should be banned altogether and that that would be a solution. (I can tell you it wouldn't.)
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Sparrow Castle
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:52 pm

ntwo.org
2 hrs ·
We will be welcoming our first three "unofficial" horses to our program this weekend! Our fabulous Louisiana rep Emily Guiza was contacted about three racehorses who need homes. We decided that even if we haven't officially started operations, we can certainly take in these three. They are to ship out on Sunday, and our wonderful Carrie Brogden will be accepting them at her Machmer Hall farm. We will anxiously await the arrival of Fuhr Father (2014 g by Forefathers out of Aleja Grand, by Langfuhr) from trainer Chad Maturin and owner Jerald Maturin, and Dynamic Decision (2011 g by Dixie Union out of Risk, by Wavering Monarch) and Czarmo (2013 g by Uncle Mo out of American Czarina, by Quiet American) from owner Steve Seeber. The following are photos we have of two, we'll post the third if we get it before they arrive. We'll post new pictures and details likely on Monday. Welcome, boys!

Czarmo
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Fuhr Father
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Ballerina
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:35 pm

barbaro111 wrote:
Ziggypop wrote:
Treve wrote:I hope CBS will provide a balanced perspective... but I doubt it. Wonder if NTWO can reach out to them, or possibly another Network like NBC?
There is no "balanced" perspective. The slaughter issue is exactly what it is. And the industry has dragged its feet and swept it under the table for far far too long. And too many still want to take the easy way out by dumping them.

No one talks about the broodmares, barren, pregnant and babies by their sides who end up in the slaughter pipeline-which is utterly appalling. Slaughter is a cancer on the entire industry.

amen to what you said.
another amen here.
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