"Bubble" and "Watch" horse thread

TapitsGal
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Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:36 am

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Just because Jacobson made a donation to Old Friends doesn't mean he actually wants to retire any horses there before they break.[/quote]
Let's hope and pray he's really an iron horse. My concern is this doesn't seem to be one of those horses who take care of themselves. He tries to win his races. 12 starts last year, went 3-4-2 $180,320, and didn't race Oct-Nov with Bruce Levine/Repole. I'm getting to the point when I just wish he'd start losing and tilt the balance sheet.[/quote]

I worry about Be Bullish and worry that if he starts losing Jacobson would drop him down in the ranks to bottom claimers and then dump him somewhere.....unfavorable rather than ship him to Old Friends as he should be, speaking of Jacobson...i noticed that Slim Shadey was entered in a stakes yesterday and then scratched..anyone know why?
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:43 pm

I'm not sure where to post this but, because I sometimes post about the very frustrating negatives in this sport, the positives also need to be acknowledged. Maybe we need a new thread about progress made in protecting the health and safety of horses and jockeys.

Palm Meadows Adds Standing MRI Unit
Palm Meadows Training Center, a satellite facility for Gulfstream Park, has added a standing magnetic resonance imaging unit, which it says is the first at a Thoroughbred racetrack or training center in North America..."The standing MRI has been used successfully in Newmarket, Dubai, Hong Kong, and Japan to identify the early warning signs of fetlock fracture in the Thoroughbred racehorse," Peloso said.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... z3Ow7pIkKO

Also, on Twitter: Gregory Hall @gregoryahall
‪#‎KHRC‬ vet staff says 1.11 fatalities per 1k starts in Ky. thoroughbred racing in 2014. Lowest since at least 2006.
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:54 pm

Bloodhorse article:
Record Low for Fatal Breakdowns in Kentucky
Kentucky Horse Racing Commission equine medical director Mary Scollay noted that the big drop compared with 2007 has come through steady progress as rates were about 1.6 in 2008 and 2009, and around 1.4 from 2010-13 before taking another drop this year. Scollay said a collaborative effort has led to the reduction in catastrophic breakdowns.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... z3OwBCLUn0
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Sparrow Castle
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:12 am

And in California (although I don't really count "talk" as progress):

California Tracks to Beef Up Ship and Win Program
...While attracting fresh horses was the goal of the marketing initiative, weeding out the ones that might be unsafe, or at the very least, unappealing from a product standpoint, was a separate concern of CHRB commissioners.

Although no vote was scheduled or called for, the commissioners asked CHRB stewards and equine medical director Rick Arthur to explain how on-track officials might improve procedures to cut down on the number of horses with abysmal past performances from appearing in the entries.

The board called for a clarification of whose job it should be--either the racing secretaries’ or the stewards’--to flag problem horses. The consensus was that both parties need to work in conjunction, because in an era where there is a nationwide horse shortage, racing secretaries are under increased pressure to provide fuller fields.

"Statistically, from the [Jockey Club’s] Equine Injury Database, horses that finish toward the back of the field and horses dropping in class have a great risk of having an injury," said Arthur. "As are horses that have been on the vet’s list for any reason. There are horses that are marked by [CHRB] veterinarians for watching in all stages of the process. Even after the race, there will be some horses that get special scrutiny, and we actually go back from time to time several days after the race to see how they’ve come out."...
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/sh ... fm?id=1731
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serenassong
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:44 am

Sparrow Castle wrote:And in California (although I don't really count "talk" as progress):

California Tracks to Beef Up Ship and Win Program
...While attracting fresh horses was the goal of the marketing initiative, weeding out the ones that might be unsafe, or at the very least, unappealing from a product standpoint, was a separate concern of CHRB commissioners.

Although no vote was scheduled or called for, the commissioners asked CHRB stewards and equine medical director Rick Arthur to explain how on-track officials might improve procedures to cut down on the number of horses with abysmal past performances from appearing in the entries.

The board called for a clarification of whose job it should be--either the racing secretaries’ or the stewards’--to flag problem horses. The consensus was that both parties need to work in conjunction, because in an era where there is a nationwide horse shortage, racing secretaries are under increased pressure to provide fuller fields.

"Statistically, from the [Jockey Club’s] Equine Injury Database, horses that finish toward the back of the field and horses dropping in class have a great risk of having an injury," said Arthur. "As are horses that have been on the vet’s list for any reason. There are horses that are marked by [CHRB] veterinarians for watching in all stages of the process. Even after the race, there will be some horses that get special scrutiny, and we actually go back from time to time several days after the race to see how they’ve come out."...
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/sh ... fm?id=1731
Step in the right direction.
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BaroqueAgain1
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:56 pm

Sounds like the CHRB is instituting its own "Bubble" and "Watch" list. 8-)
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Sparrow Castle
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:20 pm

And New York will have a bubble and watch list as well...only at at Aqueduct...and it will be published for all to see. The horse must lose by at least 25 lengths to get on it. Wish they would have cited the data used to make these decisions, if they used data. Wonder what Jacobson and Rudy R think about this.

New York Racing Association announces additional steps to further enhance safety at Aqueduct Racetrack
This afternoon, the New York Racing Association (NYRA), in consultation with the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association (NYTHA), announced additional steps to further enhance stringent safety protocols for thoroughbred racing already in place at Aqueduct Racetrack.

"The safety of our equine athletes and jockeys at Aqueduct Racetrack is a high priority," stated Christopher Kay, Chief Executive Officer and President. "In that spirit, the New York Racing Association continues to work together with the NYTHA leadership and the New York State Gaming Commission in these important endeavors."

The New York Racing Association will be implementing the following protocols:

• Effective today, the New York Racing Association steward will keep a "poor performance" list. Horses will be placed on this list after performing in a race at Aqueduct and losing by a margin of 25 lengths or greater. Once on the poor performance list, said horse must complete a half-mile workout in 53 seconds or less to be permitted to enter in a future race. This list will be available to the public on NYRA.com.

• Effective Thursday, January 22, the New York Racing Association will reduce weekday race cards (Wednesday through Friday) to eight races. First scheduled post time will be moved from 12:20 p.m. to 1:20 p.m. on weekdays, and 12:45 p.m. on weekends.

• Effective Thursday, January 22, the bottom level for maiden claimers will be raised from maiden $12,500 to maiden $16,000.

• Effective for entries beginning with the race card for Thursday, January 22, and until further notice, entries will no longer be accepted at Aqueduct on any horse that has participated in a recognized race within 14 days of that start. Horses will be permitted to start on the 15th day following said race.

"The measures announced by NYRA today constitute an important step toward addressing the troubling situation at Aqueduct. We continue to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of each fatality and work closely with NYRA management in order to determine if additional actions need to be taken to protect horses and riders," said New York State Gaming Commission Executive Director Robert Williams.

"New York horsemen continue to work with the New York Racing Association to make adjustments and raise the bar to protect our equine athletes and their riders on their backs," said Rick Violette, Jr., President of the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association.

These four steps complement additional measures implemented during the current Aqueduct winter meet. During this time, the New York Racing Association has:

• Requested and secured approval from the State of New York to implement two lengthy breaks in Aqueduct's winter schedule. One break was completed prior to Christmas, with a second scheduled during March. Both are designed to provide additional rest opportunities for our equine athletes.

• Instituted stringent workout requirements at Aqueduct, mirroring strict requirements previously implemented on the Southern California circuit. These new requirements mandate a minimum number of official, recorded workouts, as well as minimum distances, for various types of horses.

• Implemented stricter processes, procedures and standards at Aqueduct for shockwave therapy, a non-invasive treatment which can speed the healing of orthopedic and soft tissue injuries.

• Reviewed, and continues to review, our racing inventory to eliminate non-competitive horses from participating in racing.

• Implemented State Equine Medical Director Dr. Scott Palmer's direction that necropsies be ordered for all equine fatalities taking place on the grounds of Aqueduct, including off-track, non-racing and training.
Over the course of the past two years, the New York Racing Association has implemented a series of reforms which has resulted in a decrease in the number of catastrophic injuries since the State's 2012 task force report.
http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/new-york-r ... racetrack/
BlindLucky
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:53 pm

Another Jacobson, Grade 2 placed 5-yr-old horse Vegas No Show (half to Bullsbay), was claimed by him for $35k last November. I can only guess he's got some issues, because he only has 1 posted work in the interim and Jacobson dropped him directly down for a $10k tag today, where he ran 2nd in a 3 horse field at Aqueduct. He was claimed today by Joseph Mazza, who seems like a really small-time trainer.

Anyway, I liked the horse and had wondered where he disappeared to.
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BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:31 pm

From what I heard from the TVG guys, several horses were entered for races today at Aqueduct, in spite of the fact that they didn't qualify under the new 'can't have run in 14 days' rule. Surprise, surprise...they had to be scratched, which is why we had short fields in some races. And, as the TVG guys pointed out, why did the trainers (cough...Jacobson) enter the horses when they knew they couldn't run?
Putting my cynic hat on, I wonder if certain trainers were trying to make a point? By entering horses, it made it seem that there were enough horses to get the race to go...but by then losing the horses due to the new rules, that created an uncomfortable situation for the track?
Last edited by BaroqueAgain1 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sparrow Castle
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:49 pm

Not defending anyone, but a number of the Stewards scratches today last raced 1/11/15, exactly 14 days ago. Might there have been some confusion over when the clock starts ticking?
Catalina
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:54 pm

BlindLucky wrote:Another Jacobson, Grade 2 placed 5-yr-old horse Vegas No Show (half to Bullsbay), was claimed by him for $35k last November. I can only guess he's got some issues, because he only has 1 posted work in the interim and Jacobson dropped him directly down for a $10k tag today, where he ran 2nd in a 3 horse field at Aqueduct. He was claimed today by Joseph Mazza, who seems like a really small-time trainer.

Anyway, I liked the horse and had wondered where he disappeared to.
Wasn't there some new rule about number of posted works since a long absence, or was last November simply not long enough ago?
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dustino140
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:58 pm

Of everything NYRA has done (and I think it's mostly good in this case) , the 14 days rule is, IMO, silly. It'd be great if that was a protest by the trainers. I see horses run back on 'short' rest (7-14 days), and sometimes wi, at tracks big and small every week. It all goes back on the trainers and their inherent responsibility to only run horses when they're right and ready. And this brings me back to my assertion that trainers should be punished for on-track breakdowns and DNFs.
Somnambulist
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:12 pm

dustino140 wrote:Of everything NYRA has done (and I think it's mostly good in this case) , the 14 days rule is, IMO, silly. It'd be great if that was a protest by the trainers. I see horses run back on 'short' rest (7-14 days), and sometimes wi, at tracks big and small every week. It all goes back on the trainers and their inherent responsibility to only run horses when they're right and ready. And this brings me back to my assertion that trainers should be punished for on-track breakdowns and DNFs.
IMO, NYRA is damned if they do or don't in this situation. I don't think this is that silly.
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BlindLucky
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:43 pm

Catalina wrote:
BlindLucky wrote:Another Jacobson, Grade 2 placed 5-yr-old horse Vegas No Show (half to Bullsbay), was claimed by him for $35k last November. I can only guess he's got some issues, because he only has 1 posted work in the interim and Jacobson dropped him directly down for a $10k tag today, where he ran 2nd in a 3 horse field at Aqueduct. He was claimed today by Joseph Mazza, who seems like a really small-time trainer.

Anyway, I liked the horse and had wondered where he disappeared to.
Wasn't there some new rule about number of posted works since a long absence, or was last November simply not long enough ago?
If a horse hasn't started in 60 days, they require 2 workouts. However, today's start was on the 56th day (give or take one or two, depending on how they count them). If he'd waited until next weekend, he'd be technically required to have a second work.
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Sparrow Castle
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Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:02 am

Sparrow Castle wrote:Not defending anyone, but a number of the Stewards scratches today last raced 1/11/15, exactly 14 days ago. Might there have been some confusion over when the clock starts ticking?
New entry rule at Aqueduct causes multiple scratches
The stewards were forced to scratch eight horses from Sunday’s card at Aqueduct after the racing office erroneously allowed them to be entered in violation of a rule the New York Racing Association put in place just nine days ago.

The scratches resulted into NYRA having to offer two fields of three horses and one of four.

On Jan. 16, in a press release announcing steps it was undertaking to address the spate of equine fatalities at the Aqueduct winter meet, NYRA announced “entries will no longer be accepted at Aqueduct on any horse that has participated in a recognized race within 14 days of that start. Horses will be permitted to start on the 15th day following said race.”
http://www.drf.com/news/new-entry-rule- ... -scratches
Catalina
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Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:47 am

BlindLucky wrote:
Catalina wrote:
BlindLucky wrote:Another Jacobson, Grade 2 placed 5-yr-old horse Vegas No Show (half to Bullsbay), was claimed by him for $35k last November. I can only guess he's got some issues, because he only has 1 posted work in the interim and Jacobson dropped him directly down for a $10k tag today, where he ran 2nd in a 3 horse field at Aqueduct. He was claimed today by Joseph Mazza, who seems like a really small-time trainer.

Anyway, I liked the horse and had wondered where he disappeared to.
Wasn't there some new rule about number of posted works since a long absence, or was last November simply not long enough ago?
If a horse hasn't started in 60 days, they require 2 workouts. However, today's start was on the 56th day (give or take one or two, depending on how they count them). If he'd waited until next weekend, he'd be technically required to have a second work.
Hope that horse is OK. He's been steeply dropping in the ranks, and not just the last two races.
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dustino140
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Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:27 am

Somnambulist wrote:
dustino140 wrote:Of everything NYRA has done (and I think it's mostly good in this case) , the 14 days rule is, IMO, silly. It'd be great if that was a protest by the trainers. I see horses run back on 'short' rest (7-14 days), and sometimes wi, at tracks big and small every week. It all goes back on the trainers and their inherent responsibility to only run horses when they're right and ready. And this brings me back to my assertion that trainers should be punished for on-track breakdowns and DNFs.
IMO, NYRA is damned if they do or don't in this situation. I don't think this is that silly.
Is there proof that a horse running back in 2 weeks (or less) is at a significantly higher risk of breakdown than a horse with a longer layoff? I guess my point is that there are already nearly 100 horses in the US that have started 3 times in 2015, some on top circuits like Santa Anita, Tampa, etc., and we're only 3 1/2 weeks into the year. If they can handle that, why shouldn't they be allowed to?
Catalina
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Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:06 pm

dustino140 wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:
dustino140 wrote:Of everything NYRA has done (and I think it's mostly good in this case) , the 14 days rule is, IMO, silly. It'd be great if that was a protest by the trainers. I see horses run back on 'short' rest (7-14 days), and sometimes wi, at tracks big and small every week. It all goes back on the trainers and their inherent responsibility to only run horses when they're right and ready. And this brings me back to my assertion that trainers should be punished for on-track breakdowns and DNFs.
IMO, NYRA is damned if they do or don't in this situation. I don't think this is that silly.
Is there proof that a horse running back in 2 weeks (or less) is at a significantly higher risk of breakdown than a horse with a longer layoff? I guess my point is that there are already nearly 100 horses in the US that have started 3 times in 2015, some on top circuits like Santa Anita, Tampa, etc., and we're only 3 1/2 weeks into the year. If they can handle that, why shouldn't they be allowed to?
Because they can handle it until they break down? I think at some point you run into a deficit in bone remodeling. Plus, of course, NYRA doesn't want to include the inner track as a significant contributor to the problem.
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dustino140
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Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:21 pm

Catalina wrote: Because they can handle it until they break down? I think at some point you run into a deficit in bone remodeling. Plus, of course, NYRA doesn't want to include the inner track as a significant contributor to the problem.
If you were to get rid of horses that run back frequently, you'd be putting a lot of smaller tracks out of business. Look at the PPs for a Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Belterra, Mahoning Valley, any of the fair circuits, etc. and you'll see horses every single day that are running back on short rest. And until anybody can prove that such action is a contributor to breakdown, which I do not believe, saying things like "because they can handle it until they breakdown" is sensationalist talk that has absolutely no basis and could be applied to any subgroup of racehorses. I'd argue that running those horses with that frequency, and training through racing (not fast 4-5f workouts) may actually be beneficial to their health, instead of a detriment to it.
Catalina
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Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:41 pm

dustino140 wrote:
Catalina wrote: Because they can handle it until they break down? I think at some point you run into a deficit in bone remodeling. Plus, of course, NYRA doesn't want to include the inner track as a significant contributor to the problem.
If you were to get rid of horses that run back frequently, you'd be putting a lot of smaller tracks out of business. Look at the PPs for a Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Belterra, Mahoning Valley, any of the fair circuits, etc. and you'll see horses every single day that are running back on short rest. And until anybody can prove that such action is a contributor to breakdown, which I do not believe, saying things like "because they can handle it until they breakdown" is sensationalist talk that has absolutely no basis and could be applied to any subgroup of racehorses. I'd argue that running those horses with that frequency, and training through racing (not fast 4-5f workouts) may actually be beneficial to their health, instead of a detriment to it.
So make a list of those horses and keep checking on them through 12/31/2015.

Edited to add: If those races are no more strenuous than what would amount to a "paid workout", yes they can get by with that for a while. But even then, IMO, not indefinitely.
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