Asmussen handed 30 day suspension

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TapitsGal
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:38 pm

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... -overages/

I firmly believe that there is NO reason a horse should need to be ridden with the assistance of medications like Ace..if you need to dose your horse with Ace in order to ride it successfully then you not only have a major ethical problem (yes I believe it's unethical to drug your horse so you can ride it) but you also are majorly lacking in the horsemanship department..my other two thoughts are this suspension should be effective immediately and also that during the suspension period tracks should refuse to accept horses entered under the names of Steve's Assistant trainers
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Curtis
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:09 pm

TapitsGal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:38 pm
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... -overages/

I firmly believe that there is NO reason a horse should need to be ridden with the assistance of medications like Ace..if you need to dose your horse with Ace in order to ride it successfully then you not only have a major ethical problem (yes I believe it's unethical to drug your horse so you can ride it) but you also are majorly lacking in the horsemanship department..my other two thoughts are this suspension should be effective immediately and also that during the suspension period tracks should refuse to accept horses entered under the names of Steve's Assistant trainers
Do we know specifically that the horses were given ACE to make them easier to ride? There are other reasons to do it.
stark
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:12 pm

Squeaky wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:29 am
Asmussen is appealing the ruling, saying he had the ace given way outside of recommended timeframes, and that the cutoff levels were reflective of IV use, not oral, which is how most backstretch vets use it, and that the residual metabolites were inert and had no effect on race day. He is taking a stand on principle to help other horsemen.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:25 pm

stark wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:12 pm
Squeaky wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:29 am
Asmussen is appealing the ruling, saying he had the ace given way outside of recommended timeframes, and that the cutoff levels were reflective of IV use, not oral, which is how most backstretch vets use it, and that the residual metabolites were inert and had no effect on race day. He is taking a stand on principle to help other horsemen.
Somewhere A.C. Avila is thanking him.
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Squeaky
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:32 pm

Curtis wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:09 pm
TapitsGal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:38 pm
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... -overages/

I firmly believe that there is NO reason a horse should need to be ridden with the assistance of medications like Ace..if you need to dose your horse with Ace in order to ride it successfully then you not only have a major ethical problem (yes I believe it's unethical to drug your horse so you can ride it) but you also are majorly lacking in the horsemanship department..my other two thoughts are this suspension should be effective immediately and also that during the suspension period tracks should refuse to accept horses entered under the names of Steve's Assistant trainers
Do we know specifically that the horses were given ACE to make them easier to ride? There are other reasons to do it.
It is unclear how Steve was using ace. It could be for shoeing or shipping as was mentioned in the article in general terms. As a small animal veterinarian, it has been my experience that In small animal medicine it is used as a sedative ( old school) or pre-anesthetic combined with other drugs. It has generally fallen out of favor as most vets are using more modern and safer drugs now. Maybe someone who works on the backside could comment on how it is typically used in racehorse medicine.
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Curtis
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:57 pm

Squeaky wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:32 pm
Curtis wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:09 pm
TapitsGal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:38 pm
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... -overages/

I firmly believe that there is NO reason a horse should need to be ridden with the assistance of medications like Ace..if you need to dose your horse with Ace in order to ride it successfully then you not only have a major ethical problem (yes I believe it's unethical to drug your horse so you can ride it) but you also are majorly lacking in the horsemanship department..my other two thoughts are this suspension should be effective immediately and also that during the suspension period tracks should refuse to accept horses entered under the names of Steve's Assistant trainers
Do we know specifically that the horses were given ACE to make them easier to ride? There are other reasons to do it.
It is unclear how Steve was using ace. It could be for shoeing or shipping as was mentioned in the article in general terms. As a small animal veterinarian, it has been my experience that In small animal medicine it is used as a sedative ( old school) or pre-anesthetic combined with other drugs. It has generally fallen out of favor as most vets are using more modern and safer drugs now. Maybe someone who works on the backside could comment on how it is typically used in racehorse medicine.
I’ve used it sparingly when hauling a horse, as a last resort. When I bought Border Run, for example, it would have cone in handy when we hauled him but I didn’t bring any so we had to do the best we could and fortunately he didn’t hurt himself—or any of us. I’ve also used it on July 4th and New Year’s Eve but as my horses have aged and mellowed, I don’t do that any longer.
Mintano
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:02 pm

Squeaky wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:32 pm
Curtis wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:09 pm
TapitsGal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:38 pm
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... -overages/

I firmly believe that there is NO reason a horse should need to be ridden with the assistance of medications like Ace..if you need to dose your horse with Ace in order to ride it successfully then you not only have a major ethical problem (yes I believe it's unethical to drug your horse so you can ride it) but you also are majorly lacking in the horsemanship department..my other two thoughts are this suspension should be effective immediately and also that during the suspension period tracks should refuse to accept horses entered under the names of Steve's Assistant trainers
Do we know specifically that the horses were given ACE to make them easier to ride? There are other reasons to do it.
It is unclear how Steve was using ace. It could be for shoeing or shipping as was mentioned in the article in general terms. As a small animal veterinarian, it has been my experience that In small animal medicine it is used as a sedative ( old school) or pre-anesthetic combined with other drugs. It has generally fallen out of favor as most vets are using more modern and safer drugs now. Maybe someone who works on the backside could comment on how it is typically used in racehorse medicine.
There are a lot of horses out there who get oral ace in order to train...there are some horses out there it’s not worth the riders life to send them out without ace. We’ve got a filly who will train when needed with it. Otherwise she’s too hard on herself and on her bad days she’d kill herself and her rider without it. Medically I know a lot of horses who tie up who train on it. We had a filly who would tie up if she didn’t have it. All she needed was a quarter of a pill but without it she would tie up every time. Obviously they don’t get it within withdrawal time which is 4 days in NJ, not sure what it is in other states. For the horses that had to train on it they would walk up to the race rather than risk the consequences.

I never thought I’d agree with tranquilizing a horse in order to train them but after dealing with some of the really tough ones, it sometimes is required. It’s not bad horsemanship, sometimes it’s the only way to keep horse and rider safe.
CorridorZ75
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:46 am

If a horse can't be trained without a sedative, then maybe they don't need to be in training for racing, no matter how fast they might be.
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Curtis
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:57 am

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:46 am
If a horse can't be trained without a sedative, then maybe they don't need to be in training for racing, no matter how fast they might be.
How do you train yours?
TapitsGal
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am

Curtis wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:57 am
CorridorZ75 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:46 am
If a horse can't be trained without a sedative, then maybe they don't need to be in training for racing, no matter how fast they might be.
How do you train yours?
I have excellent riders who can handle anything I throw them on. My friend races her horses with a zero tolerance drug policy..if she found out her trainer was doing this shed fire him..oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
stark
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:07 am

TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am
oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
What's wrong with that?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
TapitsGal
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:51 am

stark wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:07 am
TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am
oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
What's wrong with that?
Gives the public the perception that the industry doesn't care and is too lenient..if the NFL,NBA or MLB suspends a player it's usually effective immediately..they can appeal but still aren't allowed to compete until they are back in good standing
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Curtis
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:56 pm

TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am
Curtis wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:57 am
CorridorZ75 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:46 am
If a horse can't be trained without a sedative, then maybe they don't need to be in training for racing, no matter how fast they might be.
How do you train yours?
I have excellent riders who can handle anything I throw them on. My friend races her horses with a zero tolerance drug policy..if she found out her trainer was doing this shed fire him..oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
That’s fine for you but I didn’t direct the question to you unless your using multiple names as has been known to happen on here. At any rate, I won’t pass judgement until I know why it’s being used. Thank you for your contribution as it’s always nice to get different perspectives.
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Curtis
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:38 pm

TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:51 am
stark wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:07 am
TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am
oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
What's wrong with that?
Gives the public the perception that the industry doesn't care and is too lenient..if the NFL,NBA or MLB suspends a player it's usually effective immediately..they can appeal but still aren't allowed to compete until they are back in good standing
Darryl Henley was allowed to play after having been arrested for drug trafficking.

Asmussen, last I checked, had more drug overages than any trainer in the country, so I’m not defending him. Nor do I defend Dorf, I just find it curious in how it’s handled. Each state and even track is it’s own jurisdiction making these sorts of things ripe for appeals. Asmussen is doing what the law allows. He hasn’t been convicted of anything and he wants to plead his case. If he loses, suspend away, don’t be surprised, though, if a guy like aDic Allred welcomes him and gives him the barns next to Jerry.
stark
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:08 pm

TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:51 am
stark wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:07 am
TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am
oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
What's wrong with that?
Gives the public the perception that the industry doesn't care and is too lenient..if the NFL,NBA or MLB suspends a player it's usually effective immediately..they can appeal but still aren't allowed to compete until they are back in good standing
Does this matter any in the court of public perception?.....

Clark Brewster, an attorney representing Asmussen, said....

Acepromazine was administered orally outside the 48-hour withdrawal period, but residue from the metabolite HEPS has been found to remain in horses for longer periods of time than the withdrawal guideline. He also noted the guideline protocols are based on administration through IV, adding most backside veterinarians use the oral suspension of Acepromazine.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
MySaladDays
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:22 pm

TapitsGal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:38 pm
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... -overages/

I firmly believe that there is NO reason a horse should need to be ridden with the assistance of medications like Ace..
I agree with you, but why are you assuming it was given "to race??

wihout good scientific input on this, about how this drug metabolizes, and how long it takes to leave the system, I can't really comment on this specific story yet.

Horses like dogs, are often given Ace for things like travleling, shoe-ing, fourth of july noises, thunderstorms, etc. I've had to dose one of my dogs before.

So I would have to know exactly how long the amount given would take to leave no traces in the system.


OTOH this trainer has more suspensions/fines over the years that you need more than 2 hands and 2 feet to count up.....but that doesn't mean he isn't asking for this to be investigated because it may be an issue that needs to be looked at more closely, by vets and by testers.......to make sure traces can't be found in a longer than is generally thought?


He should probably consult with Baffert. The morphine trace that wasfound in that filly back in 2000, and claimed to be "environmental contamination" (boy baffert sure has a lot of bad straw or feed at his barn) ...... well that case was eventually thrown out, because the CHRB *accidentally threw away" or lost the blood, so it could not be split-tested. (sound familiar?)
CorridorZ75
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Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:09 pm

Curtis wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:56 pm
TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am
Curtis wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:57 am


How do you train yours?
I have excellent riders who can handle anything I throw them on. My friend races her horses with a zero tolerance drug policy..if she found out her trainer was doing this shed fire him..oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
That’s fine for you but I didn’t direct the question to you unless your using multiple names as has been known to happen on here. At any rate, I won’t pass judgement until I know why it’s being used. Thank you for your contribution as it’s always nice to get different perspectives.
Well, to be honest, I would first try to change the environment. If they are so keyed up at a track, I would look into training them at a place like Fairhill. I would go back to the beginning and try to redo the basic training, and if they are still completely insane, I would debate with myself whether I want these genes continuing on. As someone who has worked with my head in close proximity to hooves, I value common sense above all in a horse, and sedating a horse for things doesn't always make it safer. Oftentimes, it just means you end up letting your guard down and are less careful, and more exposed, when they suddenly go off out of nowhere.
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Curtis
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Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:39 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:09 pm
Curtis wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:56 pm
TapitsGal wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:32 am

I have excellent riders who can handle anything I throw them on. My friend races her horses with a zero tolerance drug policy..if she found out her trainer was doing this shed fire him..oh also, further outlining the problems in this sport...Asmussen has been GRANTED a STAY of suspension
That’s fine for you but I didn’t direct the question to you unless your using multiple names as has been known to happen on here. At any rate, I won’t pass judgement until I know why it’s being used. Thank you for your contribution as it’s always nice to get different perspectives.
Well, to be honest, I would first try to change the environment. If they are so keyed up at a track, I would look into training them at a place like Fairhill. I would go back to the beginning and try to redo the basic training, and if they are still completely insane, I would debate with myself whether I want these genes continuing on. As someone who has worked with my head in close proximity to hooves, I value common sense above all in a horse, and sedating a horse for things doesn't always make it safer. Oftentimes, it just means you end up letting your guard down and are less careful, and more exposed, when they suddenly go off out of nowhere.
Thank you. I have no idea why the ACE is being used, specifically. I do know Asmussen has a lot of horses which often times comes with shortcuts being taken.
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