2019 Pegasus World Cup

Post Reply
stark
Posts: 5113
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:22 pm

thinair wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:14 pm
I don't think that's fair. The Coolmore owners are making those calls, as they are essentially freerolls to create stallion value in America for dir horses. It sure worked well for Giants Causeway ( and even gave Johanessburg a shot ). Tough to blame O'Brien for that,

Don't get me wrong, I bet against a LOT of the horses he sends here, but it's not because he's a bad trainer. They come over here taking shots with horses not good enough to win over there, at least during the year, for the most part. I don't blame that on the trainer however.
I appreciate the response. Now let's take that same assumption to the original two, Lukas and Pletcher, we've seen them enter countless horses in over their heads, out of their element, in questionable health etc. Do you think those were by and large owners decisions too?
(And I didn't say he was a bad trainer, just willing to enter horses where they didn't belong for whatever reason, and I don't think BB does that.)
Hope you're feeling better.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
Posts: 5113
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:25 pm

Bonus question.....Bobby Frankel and Juddmonte.....who made the decisions when/where to run?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
Posts: 1732
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:39 pm

stark wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:22 pm
thinair wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:14 pm
I don't think that's fair. The Coolmore owners are making those calls, as they are essentially freerolls to create stallion value in America for dir horses. It sure worked well for Giants Causeway ( and even gave Johanessburg a shot ). Tough to blame O'Brien for that,

Don't get me wrong, I bet against a LOT of the horses he sends here, but it's not because he's a bad trainer. They come over here taking shots with horses not good enough to win over there, at least during the year, for the most part. I don't blame that on the trainer however.
I appreciate the response. Now let's take that same assumption to the original two, Lukas and Pletcher, we've seen them enter countless horses in over their heads, out of their element, in questionable health etc. Do you think those were by and large owners decisions too?
(And I didn't say he was a bad trainer, just willing to enter horses where they didn't belong for whatever reason, and I don't think BB does that.)
Hope you're feeling better.
I don't know. I also don't particularly agree that Todd should be lumped in with Wayne, who never saw a big race he didn't want to be in ( he's also won all of them multiple times ).

A trainer's job, in many cases, is to take heat for what owners want to do. However, I doubt that was the case with Frankel and Juddmonte. He was notorious for not communicating well with owners. He was also more famous for winning. Good owners let their trainers make the call. They may have a discussion, but if you have a good trainer, you should trust him ( or her ).
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:37 pm

So I notice that Prat has the mount on Audible. Is Battle of Midway still being considered?
Catalina
Posts: 3638
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:08 pm
Location: South Texas

Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:57 pm

Curtis wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:37 pm
So I notice that Prat has the mount on Audible. Is Battle of Midway still being considered?
Makes it sound like he isn't. After losing the San Antonio to Gift Box, Hollendorfer supposedly wasn't sure about the Pegasus, was planning to discuss with WinStar and Don Alberto.
peeptoad
Posts: 2846
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 pm

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:00 pm

Curtis wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:37 pm
So I notice that Prat has the mount on Audible. Is Battle of Midway still being considered?
Nope. San Pasqual next... per Dorf. https://twitter.com/DRFPrivman/status/1 ... 5819025408
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:33 pm

peeptoad wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:00 pm
Curtis wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:37 pm
So I notice that Prat has the mount on Audible. Is Battle of Midway still being considered?
Nope. San Pasqual next... per Dorf. https://twitter.com/DRFPrivman/status/1 ... 5819025408
That was pretty much what I figured. If his shadow Dabster, Gift Box and McKinzie go in there that could be a fun race.
User avatar
ElPrado2
Posts: 2194
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:45 pm

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:15 pm

Bonus question answer, based on recent history, probably Bobby.
We may see Baffert with a few more possibly good Juddmonte youngsters, or they may try the water at another barn or 2. I don't see them going with anything not based in Los Angeles on the west coast, though.
stark
Posts: 5113
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:16 pm

ElPrado2 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:15 pm
Bonus question answer, based on recent history, probably Bobby.
We may see Baffert with a few more possibly good Juddmonte youngsters, or they may try the water at another barn or 2. I don't see them going with anything not based in Los Angeles on the west coast, though.
The fact the Frankel made the final decisions rather than the owners showed up on the tote board as I best recall. Very seldom would you ever see a 20-1 no-hoper entered from Frankel that you could just draw a line thru.

Not the same story for Lukas, Pletcher and AOB (with his North American dirt runners), plenty of times we've all said "no shot" and left 'em off our tickets. The one interesting factoid is that Lukas actually won with a few bombers and lit up the toteboard in stakes races over the years.

And I think BB falls into that category of placing horses where they belong and making certain they are 100% ready to go on his say. When's the last time you saw a 20-1 Baffert that you could leave off your tickets with confidence?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:08 pm

stark wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:16 pm
ElPrado2 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:15 pm
Bonus question answer, based on recent history, probably Bobby.
We may see Baffert with a few more possibly good Juddmonte youngsters, or they may try the water at another barn or 2. I don't see them going with anything not based in Los Angeles on the west coast, though.
The fact the Frankel made the final decisions rather than the owners showed up on the tote board as I best recall. Very seldom would you ever see a 20-1 no-hoper entered from Frankel that you could just draw a line thru.

Not the same story for Lukas, Pletcher and AOB (with his North American dirt runners), plenty of times we've all said "no shot" and left 'em off our tickets. The one interesting factoid is that Lukas actually won with a few bombers and lit up the toteboard in stakes races over the years.

And I think BB falls into that category of placing horses where they belong and making certain they are 100% ready to go on his say. When's the last time you saw a 20-1 Baffert that you could leave off your tickets with confidence?
Solomini? ;) Can you bet in Vegas or online as to whether he'll change leads?
User avatar
Starine
Posts: 4631
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:39 am
Location: South Carolina

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:21 pm

Baffert On The Fence About McKinzie In The Pegasus World Cup
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/pega ... world-cup/
“He's doing well and ii's tempting,” Baffert said of McKinzie, who won his last start in the Grade I Malibu Stakes at seven furlongs on Dec. 26.
Last edited by Starine on Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
stark
Posts: 5113
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:42 pm

Curtis wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:08 pm

Solomini? ;) Can you bet in Vegas or online as to whether he'll change leads?
Ahhh yes, for every tenet there's an exception or two like the maiden winner Solomini,, but the good news is that he was 60-1 in that Derby vs. the two 7-1 shots Audible and Mendy from the aforementioned barns. Did Zayat make the call to run?

Ohbytheway, he's turning in some snappy drills these days....

Santa Anita 1/10/2019 Dirt 4F 48.40 Handily 5/58
Santa Anita 12/21/2018 Dirt 4F 46.80 Handily 1/38
Santa Anita 12/15/2018 Dirt 6F 1:13.60 Handily 4/19
Santa Anita 12/9/2018 Dirt 6F 1:13.20 Handily from the gate 2/5
Santa Anita 12/3/2018 Dirt 6F 1:12.40 Handily from the gate 1/10
Santa Anita 11/26/2018 Dirt 5F 59.80 Handily 2/44
Santa Anita 11/19/2018 Dirt 5F 59.80 Handily 2/36
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:14 pm

stark wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:42 pm
Curtis wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:08 pm

Solomini? ;) Can you bet in Vegas or online as to whether he'll change leads?
Ahhh yes, for every tenet there's an exception or two like the maiden winner Solomini,, but the good news is that he was 60-1 in that Derby vs. the two 7-1 shots Audible and Mendy from the aforementioned barns. Did Zayat make the call to run?

Ohbytheway, he's turning in some snappy drills these days....

Santa Anita 1/10/2019 Dirt 4F 48.40 Handily 5/58
Santa Anita 12/21/2018 Dirt 4F 46.80 Handily 1/38
Santa Anita 12/15/2018 Dirt 6F 1:13.60 Handily 4/19
Santa Anita 12/9/2018 Dirt 6F 1:13.20 Handily from the gate 2/5
Santa Anita 12/3/2018 Dirt 6F 1:12.40 Handily from the gate 1/10
Santa Anita 11/26/2018 Dirt 5F 59.80 Handily 2/44
Santa Anita 11/19/2018 Dirt 5F 59.80 Handily 2/36
He didn't exactly run to those snappy drills in the Malibu as all but the last were pre race. I really don't understand why Nero was so dead on the board that day, he'd had a recency edge over Solomini and once upon a time was the Baffert Barn Flavor of the Month, at least before Martin stiffed him in his debut. Having spent so many years as a Special Educator, I like Solomini and having spent so many years as a Special Educator I'm a patient man but............
stark
Posts: 5113
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:56 pm

Soli cost $270 and has banked $760 albeit with only one trip to the winners circle.
I can think of worse things to test my patience.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:46 am

stark wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:56 pm
Soli cost $270 and has banked $760 albeit with only one trip to the winners circle.
I can think of worse things to test my patience.
So all on the Zayats then? Could be, Dabster who went for 1M and has earned 347K with several trips to the winner’s circle but he’s been much more conservatively placed. He was tried in a G2 last summer and that was too much for him so he then went in two overnight stakes—one 8f and one 10f—which he won. Then the 14f Marathon where he was second. Since then he has been joined at the hip with Battle of Midway to place 2nd and 3rd in two graded stakes where it now appears Dabster fits. Now that’s, in my opinion, how to develop a horse despite the fact they’re still upside down on him. Will the Zayat’s let Baffert do that with Solomini? There’s still a spot in the Pegasus, good seats on the Sculpture still available.😉
stark
Posts: 5113
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:22 am

Curtis wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:46 am
There’s still a spot in the Pegasus, good seats on the Sculpture still available.😉
One of the best things about being so damn olde is that nothing surprises me anymore.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
tachyon
Posts: 3886
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:52 pm

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:45 am

-- Equibase PPs for the noms:

The Pegasus World Cup
http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHors ... 126-554373

The Pegasus World Cup Turf
http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHors ... 126-554371

Can't wait!
User avatar
ElPrado2
Posts: 2194
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:45 pm

Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:14 am

If Frankel entered something that looked to be a worthy (as in deserved) 20-1, you went to the bank of choice, withdrew everything of yours, and hit the windows. If he had something else in the same race, try artistic combos, higher price on top.
I supported myself and a husband that could lose a bet that water was wet by that principle one winter in LA.
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:55 pm

ElPrado2 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:14 am
If Frankel entered something that looked to be a worthy (as in deserved) 20-1, you went to the bank of choice, withdrew everything of yours, and hit the windows. If he had something else in the same race, try artistic combos, higher price on top.
I supported myself and a husband that could lose a bet that water was wet by that principle one winter in LA.
I don’t remember too many Frankel 20-1 shots. The old timers up here still talk about him with reverence about how he claimed Pataha Prince, for 8K and Strong Award—a one-eyed gelding with two bows—for 16K and won stakes with them in so. CA. I do remember Ruhlman, a horse owned by the Mosses and who started with Frankel but was transferred to Whittingham. Ruhlman—a terrible bleeder—won the 1990 Big ‘Cap with Stevens up at 20-1. I remember talking to someone about him before that race and told the guy he could wire the field or run last. I figured in the latter.......the one that got away.
BaroqueAgain1
Posts: 10362
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:46 pm

The Turf race seems to be looking better. Nice to see a couple of O'Brien runners (Hunting Horn & Magic Wand) in the race, as well as bred-in-the-reallyreally-royal-purple Delta Prince. We've got four competitive fillies and mares, which I doubt you will ever see in the dirt-surface Pegasus.
Post Reply