Church Shooting

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Kurenai
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:47 pm

Making stricter laws helped Australia a lot. The numbers with gun related deaths were up there with the US. So I really do think that it is too easy to get a gun in the US. I don't think it would have prevented this attack though. If he wouldn't have had a gun, he would have found another way to kill people.
Somnambulist

Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:59 pm

Just like old times in here.
Senator L
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:08 pm

Why are white people the only racist's on earth? There is a lot of hate all over the world. How about Japan V.S. China and the Philippines,
Israel and Palestine...you could go on forever. Time is changing things. I know with my kids
you can't say anything bad about anyone...but it does comes out when I'm driving. :D
One other thing that is quite different from the states is the social housing. In the mandate it is
not allowed to be built in one area, but all over the city. So some of the most richest area's will have
an apartment/townhouse complex for lower income included. There aren't any area's in the city
that you can't walk through that you won't be safe and that's in a city that's 5 million plus :D
No one has ever bet enough on a winning horse.
Richard Sasuly
islandgirl45
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:13 pm

Senator L wrote:Why are white people the only racist's on earth? There is a lot of hate all over the world. How about Japan V.S. China and the Philippines,
Israel and Palestine...you could go on forever. Time is changing things. I know with my kids
you can't say anything bad about anyone...but it does comes out when I'm driving. :D
One other thing that is quite different from the states is the social housing. In the mandate it is
not allowed to be built in one area, but all over the city.
So some of the most richest area's will have
an apartment/townhouse complex for lower income included. There aren't any area's in the city
that you can't walk through that you won't be safe and that's in a city that's 5 million plus :D
Where's this?
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
~President Dwight Eisenhower
Senator L
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:16 pm

Toronto, Canada
No one has ever bet enough on a winning horse.
Richard Sasuly
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:28 pm

a Flying Brick wrote: Without going for links ...

most white homicides are whites killing other whites
most black homicides are blacks killing other blacks
and there are more black on white homicides THAN white on black homicides
I didn't say I wondered what those stats are. I'm not looking at the "racist" angle but instead the whole violence in our culture/country angle.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
a Flying Brick
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:36 pm

Admin wrote:
a Flying Brick wrote: Without going for links ...

most white homicides are whites killing other whites
most black homicides are blacks killing other blacks
and there are more black on white homicides THAN white on black homicides
I didn't say I wondered what those stats are. I'm not looking at the "racist" angle but instead the whole violence in our culture/country angle.
Well, I think you've touched upon all of them in your post. Drugs, crime, gangs, culture. I would add lack of parenting, education, no jobs.
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Ballerina
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Location: Chesapeake, VA & Saratoga, NY

Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:51 pm

Senator L wrote:30k people a year die by a firearm
so basically the civil war never ended :
cry:
"There are roughly 32,000 gun deaths per year in the United States. Of those, around 60% are suicides. About 3% are accidental deaths (between 700-800 deaths). About 34% of deaths (just over 11,000 in both 2010 and 2011) make up the remainder of gun deaths and are classified as homicides. Sometimes the 32,000 and 11,000 figures are used interchangeably by gun control advocates. Clearly, the 32,000 figure is a far more dramatic number and it is often used for impact by anti-gun activists."

http://usconservatives.about.com/od/cap ... ective.htm
SunKing
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:42 am

I said it last week. Who needs ISIS or Al Qaeda to destroy America when we're doing their job for them and we're doing quite a good job at it. This young man wanted to start a race war and either A) He didn't get the memo that it's already been going on or B) He's going to be quite disappointed when his actions end up bringing the community together. The latter has definitely been happening. If anything good comes out of this, it's that.

I hate guns, personally. I grew up in a family where my brother and I weren't allowed toy guns as kids. I have plenty of friends and family friends who either hunt or have guns as collectibles. They're not assault rifles or semi automatic handguns or anything like that. But I've tried to keep my own personal feelings out of this because I'm at the point where I know that NOTHING will change. And I don't think any gun laws could have prevented this tragedy from happening. There are hateful people in this world who will commit crimes like this no matter what. We couldn't get anything to change after Sandy Hook, unfortunately, nothing will change now. I'm not desensitized to these acts of gun violence, I pray and cry for the people who are lost. But I'm pretty desensitized when it comes to whether I think things will get better. I was 15 during Oklahoma City, 19 when Columbine happened, and I'm almost 36 now and my generation has seen this far too many times. It's very sad.
peeptoad
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:20 pm

Not related to this issue specifically (but in a general way) I am convinced that the population density is affecting people and causing some hostility and violent outbreaks. Humans, as a species, are less violent than in centuries past, so there are certainly other factors (and maybe some more prominent ones), but humans in many ways are not much different from other animals. And almost all other animals are affected by density when in a confined area with each other. Because there are now so many people on the planet those "confined areas" are becoming more and more common.
The increase in longevity/life span in recent decades may be another factor since some of the neurological problems that people exhibit would not have been seen due to shorter life spans... not to mention the fact that the quality of much of the food consumed by people is lower than it has been in the past (increase in fast/ processed foods, pollution of the world's oceans, etc.).
Catalina
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:33 pm

peeptoad wrote:Not related to this issue specifically (but in a general way) I am convinced that the population density is affecting people and causing some hostility and violent outbreaks. Humans, as a species, are less violent than in centuries past, so there are certainly other factors (and maybe some more prominent ones), but humans in many ways are not much different from other animals. And almost all other animals are affected by density when in a confined area with each other. Because there are now so many people on the planet those "confined areas" are becoming more and more common.
The increase in longevity/life span in recent decades may be another factor since some of the neurological problems that people exhibit would not have been seen due to shorter life spans... not to mention the fact that the quality of much of the food consumed by people is lower than it has been in the past (increase in fast/ processed foods, pollution of the world's oceans, etc.).
There's something to this theory, but none of the recent incidents occurred in densely populated areas.
Somnambulist

Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:34 pm

More than 2 people in an area is a bad thing... lol.

Charleston isn't exactly the backwoods of West Virginia. There are enough people around there that I'm sure it can feel crowded. I did sit in traffic around it a few times. Maybe not as crowded as I feel here in NY sometimes, but still.
peeptoad
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:37 pm

Catalina wrote:
peeptoad wrote:Not related to this issue specifically (but in a general way) I am convinced that the population density is affecting people and causing some hostility and violent outbreaks. Humans, as a species, are less violent than in centuries past, so there are certainly other factors (and maybe some more prominent ones), but humans in many ways are not much different from other animals. And almost all other animals are affected by density when in a confined area with each other. Because there are now so many people on the planet those "confined areas" are becoming more and more common.
The increase in longevity/life span in recent decades may be another factor since some of the neurological problems that people exhibit would not have been seen due to shorter life spans... not to mention the fact that the quality of much of the food consumed by people is lower than it has been in the past (increase in fast/ processed foods, pollution of the world's oceans, etc.).
There's something to this theory, but none of the recent incidents occurred in densely populated areas.
Which is why I prefaced with "other factors maybe more prominent ones", and that this isn't directly relate to this current issue... but I do think it's one of many factors related to the uptick of violent outbursts in society.
peeptoad
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:53 pm

Admin wrote:What is it about our country and culture which makes us have the highest murder and crime rates in the world?
Some ideas or theories anyway (even if a person doesn't agree with them):

http://www.howardsmead.com/why_we_ameri ... iolent.htm
Tessablue
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:02 pm

peeptoad wrote:Not related to this issue specifically (but in a general way) I am convinced that the population density is affecting people and causing some hostility and violent outbreaks. Humans, as a species, are less violent than in centuries past, so there are certainly other factors (and maybe some more prominent ones), but humans in many ways are not much different from other animals. And almost all other animals are affected by density when in a confined area with each other. Because there are now so many people on the planet those "confined areas" are becoming more and more common.
The increase in longevity/life span in recent decades may be another factor since some of the neurological problems that people exhibit would not have been seen due to shorter life spans... not to mention the fact that the quality of much of the food consumed by people is lower than it has been in the past (increase in fast/ processed foods, pollution of the world's oceans, etc.).
I don't necessarily think that population density is correlated to violence- just look at Japan and much of Europe. Have you read The Better Angels of Our Nature, by Steven Pinker? If you're interested in this topic, it's absolutely essential reading. Pinker makes the point that American crime distribution is anything but homogeneous- New England's crime trends actually closely follow those of western Europe, for example. America was colonized relatively recently, and there are all sorts of cultural complications that persist in states which were traditionally lawless "frontiers"- historical lack of law enforcement led to mistrust of the government and the emergence of a do-it-yourself "culture of honor" that encourages retribution towards perceived slights and distrust of outsiders, for example. Mix all this up with modern weaponry and racial issues, throw in the fact that people tend to broadly characterize American political issues rather than examining their effects at a cultural level (I see absolutely no point in guns and find the entire "culture of honor" baffling, but I grew up in an area with a traditionally stable government that has fostered trust in local law enforcement for hundreds of years) and you get something highly volatile- even though, at the global level, humanity has made absolutely incredible progress in a very short span of time.

Not that this case is particularly complicated. I'm glad that thus far, his stated purpose failed and his actions have predominantly brought people together instead. Funny how that tends to happen.
peeptoad
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:22 pm

Tessablue wrote:
peeptoad wrote:Not related to this issue specifically (but in a general way) I am convinced that the population density is affecting people and causing some hostility and violent outbreaks. Humans, as a species, are less violent than in centuries past, so there are certainly other factors (and maybe some more prominent ones), but humans in many ways are not much different from other animals. And almost all other animals are affected by density when in a confined area with each other. Because there are now so many people on the planet those "confined areas" are becoming more and more common.
The increase in longevity/life span in recent decades may be another factor since some of the neurological problems that people exhibit would not have been seen due to shorter life spans... not to mention the fact that the quality of much of the food consumed by people is lower than it has been in the past (increase in fast/ processed foods, pollution of the world's oceans, etc.).
I don't necessarily think that population density is correlated to violence- just look at Japan and much of Europe. Have you read The Better Angels of Our Nature, by Steven Pinker? If you're interested in this topic, it's absolutely essential reading. Pinker makes the point that American crime distribution is anything but homogeneous- New England's crime trends actually closely follow those of western Europe, for example. America was colonized relatively recently, and there are all sorts of cultural complications that persist in states which were traditionally lawless "frontiers"- historical lack of law enforcement led to mistrust of the government and the emergence of a do-it-yourself "culture of honor" that encourages retribution towards perceived slights and distrust of outsiders, for example. Mix all this up with modern weaponry and racial issues, throw in the fact that people tend to broadly characterize American political issues rather than examining their effects at a cultural level (I see absolutely no point in guns and find the entire "culture of honor" baffling, but I grew up in an area with a traditionally stable government that has fostered trust in local law enforcement for hundreds of years) and you get something highly volatile- even though, at the global level, humanity has made absolutely incredible progress in a very short span of time.

Not that this case is particularly complicated. I'm glad that thus far, his stated purpose failed and his actions have predominantly brought people together instead. Funny how that tends to happen.
I'll check out that book, thanks for the rec... maybe educate myself a bit more on the subject. I absolutely disagree that population density is not related to negative human behavior though. But that's just based on what I have read and personal experience... I realize my opinion might actually be erroneous here.
BTW, the link I posted above is more in line with what you posted (history of America, etc.).
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Starine
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Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:37 pm

Fire at North Carolina church ruled as arson
http://news.yahoo.com/fire-north-caroli ... 10655.html#

It's worth noting that this church's congregation is primarily African-American.
Admin
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Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:48 pm

SunKing wrote:I said it last week. Who needs ISIS or Al Qaeda to destroy America when we're doing their job for them and we're doing quite a good job at it. This young man wanted to start a race war and either A) He didn't get the memo that it's already been going on or B) He's going to be quite disappointed when his actions end up bringing the community together. The latter has definitely been happening. If anything good comes out of this, it's that.
I don't agree with the bolded, but then you contradicted that idea as well in B). There is no race war, and we see how many people he recruited. Let's not compare him to ISIS or AQ because that very much minimizes what those two and others like them are all about.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
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Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:40 pm

I think we need to break down the stats. If we have 12,000 murders, I absolu think we'd find 75% of those are drugs and gang related. If we have 3,000 murders in a a population of 330 million, is it really a terrible stat? Of course, I'm not saying it's "ok" that anyone is murdered, should anyone be inclined to take my comment the wrong way.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
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