Church Shooting

Admin
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:19 am

This one seems so preventable with friends and family knowing what a lunatic he is. No one tells authorities of what he plans. The father just gave him a gun in April. Im all for blaming the perpetrator of a crime, but we have to be accountable too when we do nothing when we know a person is a danger to others.

Nine people dead. Im not going to buy when the parents and others inevitably say they had no idea....
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
Somnambulist

Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:49 am

Admin wrote:This one seems so preventable with friends and family knowing what a lunatic he is. No one tells authorities of what he plans. The father just gave him a gun in April. Im all for blaming the perpetrator of a crime, but we have to be accountable too when we do nothing when we know a person is a danger to others.

Nine people dead. Im not going to buy when the parents and others inevitably say they had no idea....
Seriously! How do you give your crazy child a gun. Everything about it is just sick, sick, sick. Things like this are always horrible, but when it happens in a place that so many people find a safe haven I find it's always a little worse.


On the lighter side, I hope this isn't your ploy to get the political forum back.
Admin
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:10 am

Somnambulist wrote:
Admin wrote:This one seems so preventable with friends and family knowing what a lunatic he is. No one tells authorities of what he plans. The father just gave him a gun in April. Im all for blaming the perpetrator of a crime, but we have to be accountable too when we do nothing when we know a person is a danger to others.

Nine people dead. Im not going to buy when the parents and others inevitably say they had no idea....
Seriously! How do you give your crazy child a gun. Everything about it is just sick, sick, sick. Things like this are always horrible, but when it happens in a place that so many people find a safe haven I find it's always a little worse.


On the lighter side, I hope this isn't your ploy to get the political forum back.
;-) Not a chance... ;-)

I haven't seen any news reports about the parents or quotes from them yet -- only the part about how he got the gun. Seems everyone agrees that the gun was given him to his birthday in April, but one friend is saying the mom took away the gun because she didn't trust him with it, but then hid it so poorly that the guy took the gun back.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
peeptoad
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:21 am

Even if your kid isn't crazy guns are not for kids. Keep the gun locked up in a safe, unloaded. Responsible parenting goes by the wayside yet again...
Somnambulist

Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:23 am

peeptoad wrote:Even if your kid isn't crazy guns are not for kids. Keep the gun locked up in a safe, unloaded. Responsible parenting goes by the wayside yet again...
I agree that they should have been locked up.

My dad used to hunt, so I grew up around guns. I knew how to load, shoot, change it out, and before puberty. However I NEVER was around it without my father, and the rifles were kept in a double-safe lock that do this day I don't know how to open.

Very sad.
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Ballerina
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:49 am

The parents are separated. The father gave the kid the gun. The mother took it away from him, but the kid managed to steal it back from her. The father committed a felony and should be held accountable for it and maybe even charged with aiding abetting the son's crimes. The latter - probably won't happen, but it should.
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War Admiral
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:04 am

peeptoad wrote:Even if your kid isn't crazy guns are not for kids. Keep the gun locked up in a safe, unloaded. Responsible parenting goes by the wayside yet again...
Exactly. Even with responsible kids accidents can happen.

In this case I think the boys father needs to be held responsible too. He gave him a gun even though the boy had a felony conviction?

This whole thing is just so sad. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims families. :cry:
Government is not the solution to the problem. Government is the problem. Ronald Reagan.
Catalina
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:10 am

War Admiral wrote:
peeptoad wrote:Even if your kid isn't crazy guns are not for kids. Keep the gun locked up in a safe, unloaded. Responsible parenting goes by the wayside yet again...
Exactly. Even with responsible kids accidents can happen.

[b]In this case I think the boys father needs to be held responsible too. He gave him a gun even though the boy had a felony conviction? [/b]

This whole thing is just so sad. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims families. :cry:
If the father gave him the gun, then yes, as an accessory, I would think, and not just something that gets him a slap on the hand.
Admin
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:51 pm

Now a friend is saying he used money his dad gave him to get a gun... Which means the background check didnt work. I guess we'll have to wait to hear what really happened.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
Senator L
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:07 pm

President Obama said: Let's be clear: At some point, we, as a country, will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence doesn't happen in other countries ... with this kind of frequency."

As a guy who has lived half his life in Canada the other in the U.S. I just don't get
the laws for hand guns and assault rifles. 30k people a year die by a firearm
so basically the civil war never ended :cry:
No one has ever bet enough on a winning horse.
Richard Sasuly
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:59 pm

Hey boy, we need those assault rifles for sport, like hunting Bigfoot or for when the velociraptors attack. :twisted:
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dustino140
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:01 pm

Senator L wrote:President Obama said: Let's be clear: At some point, we, as a country, will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence doesn't happen in other countries ... with this kind of frequency."

As a guy who has lived half his life in Canada the other in the U.S. I just don't get
the laws for hand guns and assault rifles. 30k people a year die by a firearm
so basically the civil war never ended :cry:
I don't understand why anybody needs guns, but I know that's not a popular opinion.
Catalina
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:05 pm

Senator L wrote:President Obama said: Let's be clear: At some point, we, as a country, will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence doesn't happen in other countries ... with this kind of frequency."

As a guy who has lived half his life in Canada the other in the U.S. I just don't get
the laws for hand guns and assault rifles. 30k people a year die by a firearm
so basically the civil war never ended :cry:
Oh, I agree with you on that one, but, alas, we're either in the minority or the pro-gun folks just scream louder. Also, rural and small town America tends to be pro guns, and a great many voting districts are rural/small town.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:57 pm

Guns make me flinch inside just being near one, but...
I do know that there are practical reasons to own one, like for hunting, target shooting or to deal with the rattlesnake on your back steps...which my gun-phobic sister managed on one occasion.
That said, all the high-powered handguns and military-level weaponry, with armor-piercing bullets and big ammo magazines, IMO have NO practical use...except to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.
Frelling NRA has way too much influence in Washington. :evil:
islandgirl45
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:50 pm

Admin wrote:Now a friend is saying he used money his dad gave him to get a gun... Which means the background check didnt work. I guess we'll have to wait to hear what really happened.
I couldn't figure out how the guy passed a background check either, but then I read South Carolina doesn't require background checks for private gun sales, which might explain how he obtained the handgun.

Otherwise, how could a background check not catch this:
  • " . . . Mr. Roof has had two previous brushes with the law, both in recent months, according to court records. In February, he attracted attention at the Columbiana Centre, a shopping mall, when, dressed all in black, he asked store employees “out of the ordinary questions” such as how many people were working and what time they would be leaving, according to a police report.

    When a police officer questioned Mr. Roof, he “began speaking very nervously and stated that his parents were pressuring him to get a job,” but then admitted that he had not asked for applications at any of the stores, the report said.

    Asked if he had any contraband, Mr. Roof said no, according to the report, but the officer searched him and found Suboxone, a prescription drug used to treat opiate addiction and frequently sold in illegal street transactions. Mr. Roof admitted that he did not have a prescription for the drug, the report said, and he was arrested and charged with felony drug possession. The case is pending.

    In April, Mr. Roof was charged with trespassing at the same mall. The police report said he had been barred from the mall for a year after the drug arrest. Mr. Roof was convicted on that charge, a misdemeanor . . ."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/us/on ... .html?_r=0
The shooter also told friends he was going "to start a civil war," talked about wanting “to hurt a whole bunch of people,” and said he was "planning to do something crazy.”

None of his friends took him seriously.

Hard to believe the friends, or at least one parent, didn't put 2+2 together, factoring in the creepy behavior in the mall and in general, plus the pending felony charge and misdemeanor conviction. Looking at the big picture, the kid appeared to be a ticking time bomb. I realize hindsight is always 20/20, but still, it appears he was fairly signalling he planned to do something awful.
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
~President Dwight Eisenhower
Admin
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:06 am

I understand the point of the second amendment so am not one who thinks we should ban guns, and ultimately dont think the issue is the existence of guns. What is it about our country and culture which makes us have the highest murder and crime rates in the world? Melting pot? Lack of morality? Acceptance of violence? One of the negatives of freedom? Making celebrities of people who do wrong instead of shunning them? Or is it just an inevitability with X number of bad apples in any group, and the larger the population the more the bad apples? It's not the gun that's a problem, but the hearts and minds of the person.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
a Flying Brick
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:21 pm

to perhaps get a clue what was in the mind of Roof (white) which prompted the shooting, treehouse had captured his manifesto, and also included the manifesto of Eric Sheppard (black - Baltimore):

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... ore-102627

In the meantime, major media, president, and presidential candidates have no comment on these stories. There is only a story if it is white on black.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/21/us/philad ... index.html
peeptoad
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:40 pm

This is an interesting topic (imo) to discuss... and one on which I generally take a middle of the road approach. I agree that the mere existence of guns is not the core of the problem though. An outright ban would cause more problems than it solves.

The question of why this country is so violent is likely multifactorial, but some of it probably has to do with the manner in which the US was founded. The melting pot/ immigration problems are another factor, and with Mexico basically in a civil war state rife with drug cartels that can't be helping matters. A person can't even hike in some of the national parks in CA these days because of the presence of drug cartels (growing marijuana to fund meth labs, etc.).
Of course, if a person is talking violent crimes generally, then the US takes a back seat to some countries in Central & South America, Middle east and Eastern Europe. For gun deaths specifically, the US is probably closer to the top.
Admin
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:54 pm

peeptoad wrote:This is an interesting topic (imo) to discuss... and one on which I generally take a middle of the road approach. I agree that the mere existence of guns is not the core of the problem though. An outright ban would cause more problems than it solves.

The question of why this country is so violent is likely multifactorial, but some of it probably has to do with the manner in which the US was founded. The melting pot/ immigration problems are another factor, and with Mexico basically in a civil war state rife with drug cartels that can't be helping matters. A person can't even hike in some of the national parks in CA these days because of the presence of drug cartels (growing marijuana to fund meth labs, etc.).
Of course, if a person is talking violent crimes generally, then the US takes a back seat to some countries in Central & South America, Middle east and Eastern Europe. For gun deaths specifically, the US is probably closer to the top.
I would love to see the stats further broken down. Let's say it's 10,000 murders. I bet 7,500 or more are drug/gang related.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
a Flying Brick
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:05 pm

Admin wrote:
peeptoad wrote:This is an interesting topic (imo) to discuss... and one on which I generally take a middle of the road approach. I agree that the mere existence of guns is not the core of the problem though. An outright ban would cause more problems than it solves.

The question of why this country is so violent is likely multifactorial, but some of it probably has to do with the manner in which the US was founded. The melting pot/ immigration problems are another factor, and with Mexico basically in a civil war state rife with drug cartels that can't be helping matters. A person can't even hike in some of the national parks in CA these days because of the presence of drug cartels (growing marijuana to fund meth labs, etc.).
Of course, if a person is talking violent crimes generally, then the US takes a back seat to some countries in Central & South America, Middle east and Eastern Europe. For gun deaths specifically, the US is probably closer to the top.
I would love to see the stats further broken down. Let's say it's 10,000 murders. I bet 7,500 or more are drug/gang related.
Without going for links ...

most white homicides are whites killing other whites
most black homicides are blacks killing other blacks
and there are more black on white homicides THAN white on black homicides
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