Naming Question - Very Close names ?

vfan
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:24 am

To those who are familiar with the Jockey Club's approval of names - how often do they allow names that are this close together?

Princesa Carolina - 3yr old by Tapit out of Pure Clan

Princesa Caroline - 2yr old by American Pharoah out of Sacre Couer

Both are actively training, both are Kentucky-foaled so it's not an issue of an import clashing with pre-existing name.
Princesa Carolin*a* has just won a BT Stakes after placing in 3 Graded stakes and is by far the best of her dam's progeny.
Princesa Carolin*e* has pedigree wow of being an American Pharoah half to Lady Eli and will get a ton of attention when she eventually debuts.

I don't envy the announcer (or the audience!) if these two ever meet up in the same race down the road.

I found out about this was reading about Princesa CarolinA's win and having a moment of panic because I knew the AP filly hadn't yet raced and went researching to see where I'd goofed up.
Holly1972
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:58 am

vfan wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:24 am
To those who are familiar with the Jockey Club's approval of names - how often do they allow names that are this close together?

Princesa Carolina - 3yr old by Tapit out of Pure Clan

Princesa Caroline - 2yr old by American Pharoah out of Sacre Couer

Both are actively training, both are Kentucky-foaled so it's not an issue of an import clashing with pre-existing name.
Princesa Carolin*a* has just won a BT Stakes after placing in 3 Graded stakes and is by far the best of her dam's progeny.
Princesa Carolin*e* has pedigree wow of being an American Pharoah half to Lady Eli and will get a ton of attention when she eventually debuts.

I don't envy the announcer (or the audience!) if these two ever meet up in the same race down the road.

I found out about this was reading about Princesa CarolinA's win and having a moment of panic because I knew the AP filly hadn't yet raced and went researching to see where I'd goofed up.
Years ago there was a race where the first place winner was The Wife Knows Everything. Second place went to The Wife Doesn’t Know :lol: The announcer’s call was great. “The Wife Knows Everything more than The Wife Doesn’t Know” :D
stark
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:37 am

Holly1972 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:58 am
Years ago there was a race where the first place winner was The Wife Knows Everything. Second place went to The Wife Doesn’t Know :lol: The announcer’s call was great. “The Wife Knows Everything more than The Wife Doesn’t Know” :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQRlZw4Rad0
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
vfan
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:13 am

Holly1972 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:58 am
Years ago there was a race where the first place winner was The Wife Knows Everything. Second place went to The Wife Doesn’t Know :lol: The announcer’s call was great. “The Wife Knows Everything more than The Wife Doesn’t Know” :D
That was a wonderful call, I remember it making it rounds a while ago. All that race needed to be complete was a colt named Bigamist, but I suspect they wouldn't allow that name :)

In the Princesa case the CarolinA gives you an extra syllable over the other but it's at the end after 6 other syllables. And visually, they are near-identical plus very easily mistyped. Argh!
WaquoitNBroadBrush
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:47 pm

Battle of Midway and Battle Midway. The late Battle of Midway (2014, Smart Strike-Rigoletta, by Concerto) we all know about. Battle Midway (2012, Tapit-Coral Sea, by Rubiano) is still running at Penn National.
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Charlie
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:43 pm

We have so many Bell, Unique, and Unbridled fillies that I honestly can't tell them apart half the time.
KatieK101
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:36 pm

Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:43 pm
We have so many Bell, Unique, and Unbridled fillies that I honestly can't tell them apart half the time.
Unbridled Forever and Forever Unbridled still trips me up sometimes
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Northport
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:27 pm

Together Forever - 2012 m. Galileo X Green Room, by Theatrical - Owned by Coolmore, G1 winner
Forever Together - 2015 m. Galileo X Green Room, by Theatrical - Owned by Coolmore, G1 winner
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Mylute
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:53 am

Actress (Tapit, USA, 2014) MGSW
Actress (Declaration of War, IRE, 2015) MGSW and owned by Coolmore.

Both raced at the same time and confused me.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Mylute
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:55 am

KatieK101 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:36 pm
Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:43 pm
We have so many Bell, Unique, and Unbridled fillies that I honestly can't tell them apart half the time.
Unbridled Forever and Forever Unbridled still trips me up sometimes
@ Charles Fipke what are you going to do with these ladies' sons and daughters if you only ever breed to Jersey Town, Medaglia d'Oro, and Perfect Soul? XD

(I am really curious to see how he goes about this).
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Northport
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:27 pm

Ertijaal (USA) - 2011 c. Oasis Dream X Shabiba, by Seeking the Gold - Owned by Shadwell, MGSW in Dubai. Died 2018 from colic.
Ertijaal (AUS) - 2011 c. Hard Spun X Alharir, by Jeune - Owned by Shadwell, G1 winner in South Africa, GSW in Dubai. Died 2017 from a fractured sesamoid in the G1 Jebel Hatta.

I don't think they ever ran against each other, but they did race on the same cards at Meydan. Both had sad fates.
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Mylute
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:26 pm

Acclamation - MG1W stallion in California, USA bred.
Acclamation - GSW stallion in Ireland, Great Britain bred.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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bare it all
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:23 pm

Mylute wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:55 am
KatieK101 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:36 pm
Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:43 pm
We have so many Bell, Unique, and Unbridled fillies that I honestly can't tell them apart half the time.
Unbridled Forever and Forever Unbridled still trips me up sometimes
@ Charles Fipke what are you going to do with these ladies' sons and daughters if you only ever breed to Jersey Town, Medaglia d'Oro, and Perfect Soul? XD

(I am really curious to see how he goes about this).
I love a good Fipke name because I enjoy the complete lack of originality and creativity in the naming convention he employs.

Jersey Forever
Forever Jersey
Jersey Unbridled
Unbridled Jersey
Forever Unjerseyed? lol
Forever Town

Medaglia D'Forever
Unbridled D'oro
Forever D'oro
Medaglia Unbridled

Unbridled Soul <<probably exists and actually kind of a nice name
Forever Perfect
Soul Unbridled
Unbridled Perfect
Soul Forever
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Mylute
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:40 pm

Unbridled Soul (Unbridled x Red Soul) exists but she's a 1999 model bred by other people.

Forever d'Oro and Forever Perfect also exist and they're the half brotherz to Forever U and U Forever.
Last edited by Mylute on Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
WaquoitNBroadBrush
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:40 pm

Northport wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:27 pm
Ertijaal (USA) - 2011 c. Oasis Dream X Shabiba, by Seeking the Gold - Owned by Shadwell, MGSW in Dubai. Died 2018 from colic.
Ertijaal (AUS) - 2011 c. Hard Spun X Alharir, by Jeune - Owned by Shadwell, G1 winner in South Africa, GSW in Dubai. Died 2017 from a fractured sesamoid in the G1 Jebel Hatta.

I don't think they ever ran against each other, but they did race on the same cards at Meydan. Both had sad fates.
Golden Arrow and Golden Arrow II were active on the New England circuit at the same time in the early 1970s. This was before the country abbreviations were introduced; imported horses had "II" attached to their names, like Cougar and Canonero. Although Canonero was bred in the US, so he would just be Canonero if he were in a similar situation today (American-bred horse coming back after racing in Venezuela.).
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Northport
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:47 pm

WaquoitNBroadBrush wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:40 pm
Northport wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:27 pm
Ertijaal (USA) - 2011 c. Oasis Dream X Shabiba, by Seeking the Gold - Owned by Shadwell, MGSW in Dubai. Died 2018 from colic.
Ertijaal (AUS) - 2011 c. Hard Spun X Alharir, by Jeune - Owned by Shadwell, G1 winner in South Africa, GSW in Dubai. Died 2017 from a fractured sesamoid in the G1 Jebel Hatta.

I don't think they ever ran against each other, but they did race on the same cards at Meydan. Both had sad fates.
Golden Arrow and Golden Arrow II were active on the New England circuit at the same time in the early 1970s. This was before the country abbreviations were introduced; imported horses had "II" attached to their names, like Cougar and Canonero. Although Canonero was bred in the US, so he would just be Canonero if he were in a similar situation today (American-bred horse coming back after racing in Venezuela.).
Australia still cant seem to figure out the benefit of country abbreviations. They make imports or even visitors for one or two races change the name of the horses if there is already an Aussie with the same name, adding "our" or "the" to differentiate between a 4 year old who is a G1 contender in Melbourne and a 2 year old claimer in Perth :roll:
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Kelly Ann
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Harve De Grace (2000 model) and Havre De Grace (2007 model)

I still don't understand how two names soooooo similar get the okay. It isn't as though the 2000 was long gone by the time the newer Grace was named. In 2007, the year Grace II was foaled the 2000 model was giving birth to Concord Point.
WaquoitNBroadBrush
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Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:17 pm

Kelly Ann wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:15 pm
Harve De Grace (2000 model) and Havre De Grace (2007 model)

I still don't understand how two names soooooo similar get the okay. It isn't as though the 2000 was long gone by the time the newer Grace was named. In 2007, the year Grace II was foaled the 2000 model was giving birth to Concord Point.
I assume the JC would have nixed the second HDG -- the one spelled correctly -- had "Harve" been a star on the track. Otherwise, I'm sure we would have seen Seattel Slew and Secratariat in the entries at some point over the past 3-plus decades. As much as the misspelling of American Pharoah bothers me, I would resist the temptation to name a colt with the correct spelling were I to have the chance (and the money, and the mare).

Come to think of it, perhaps the Jockey Club let Havre De Grace go BECAUSE the original's name was spelled wrong! In which case, we may yet get a proper Pharaoh!
vfan
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Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:23 pm

WaquoitNBroadBrush wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:17 pm
Come to think of it, perhaps the Jockey Club let Havre De Grace go BECAUSE the original's name was spelled wrong! In which case, we may yet get a proper Pharaoh!
My purely-speculative take on this: Because the FIRST syllable is pronounced very differently - Har-ve and not Hav-re - they let it go. "ar" as in "are" and not the short a "av" as in "have".

The Jockey Club has perma-locked the correct spelling of Pharaoh/Pharoah, too. I remember reading that in more than one of the "the spelling error" type articles back when he won the TC, and then again when winning the Classic.
WaquoitNBroadBrush
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Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:30 pm

vfan wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:23 pm
WaquoitNBroadBrush wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:17 pm
Come to think of it, perhaps the Jockey Club let Havre De Grace go BECAUSE the original's name was spelled wrong! In which case, we may yet get a proper Pharaoh!
My purely-speculative take on this: Because the FIRST syllable is pronounced very differently - Har-ve and not Hav-re - they let it go. "ar" as in "are" and not the short a "av" as in "have".

The Jockey Club has perma-locked the correct spelling of Pharaoh/Pharoah, too. I remember reading that in more than one of the "the spelling error" type articles back when he won the TC, and then again when winning the Classic.
So does that mean future AP babies can only have Pharoah names, or will owners/breeders be able to use "Spectacular Pharaoh" or "Pharaoh's Joy" if they want to? Or even more creative (or stupid) misspellings: Pharoh, Pharroah, and the like?
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