The Pennsylvania Derby Saturday

stark
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:12 pm

1 Math Wizard.
2. Improbable.
3. Shanghai Superfly.
4. War of Will.
5. Spun to Run.
6. Mr. Money
7. Maximum Security.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Mylute
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:18 pm

Bleh.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Starine
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:13 pm

Mylute wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:18 pm
Bleh.
Really??

I'm quite intrigued. Will Maximum Security get away with an uncontested lead? Or will War of Will take it to him from the outset? Improbable is a good horse but I'm taking a long look at Mr. Money. Yes, it's a step up in class for him, but he has been waltzing home in consecutive graded stakes all summer.

You might not be tuning in for the race, but I definitely will be.
middleground
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 am

Starine wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:13 pm
Mylute wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:18 pm
Bleh.
Really??

I'm quite intrigued. Will Maximum Security get away with an uncontested lead? Or will War of Will take it to him from the outset? Improbable is a good horse but I'm taking a long look at Mr. Money. Yes, it's a step up in class for him, but he has been waltzing home in consecutive graded stakes all summer.

You might not be tuning in for the race, but I definitely will be.
The big question for me is this: Can Mr. Money win the elusive, highly coveted West Virginia-Indiana-Pennsylvania Derby Triple?!?!?

(Joking aside, I'm really looking forward to this race. Great field.)
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Curtis
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:41 pm

Mylute wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:18 pm
Bleh.
You have the unofficial Derby winner and current division leader, the Preakness winner, the favorite from those two races coming off an easy stakes win and an up and comer ready to take on the bigs. What were you looking for?
BaroqueAgain1
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:45 pm

On paper, it looks like it should be a good race, AND it's being shown on network NBC. That's a good thing for those fans (like me) who are cable/satellite-challenged. :mrgreen:
stark
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:32 pm

Maximum Security will be forced to scratch from Saturday's Grade 1, $1 million Pennsylvania Derby due to an issue with his colon
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Charlie
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:45 pm

Seems like Max doesn’t hold up well. It seems like he’s always scratching from races.

I’m excited to see War of Will and Mr Money, was looking forward to Max but bummer.
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Mylute
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:10 pm

Sorry for not being super interested in this race because I had a premonition the above would happen.

I am interested to see War of Will and Mr. Money, however.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Curtis
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:19 pm

Mylute wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:10 pm
Sorry for not being super interested in this race because I had a premonition the above would happen.

I am interested to see War of Will and Mr. Money, however.
You needn’t be sorry but please use your ability to see the future for good and not evil and tell me who’s going to win. Baby needs a new pair of shoes.😉
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Charlie
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:44 pm

Mylute wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:10 pm
Sorry for not being super interested in this race because I had a premonition the above would happen.

I am interested to see War of Will and Mr. Money, however.
I was going to be surprised if Max didn't scratch. He's scratched from like three races, correct?
MySaladDays
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:32 pm

severe case of colic and a displacement of the large colon........sounds pretty serious. I'm glad they got him to veterinarian, this can kill a horse.

He has always seemed like a rather fragile one. Of course, a lot of them are.
KatieK101
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:41 pm

MySaladDays wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:32 pm
severe case of colic and a displacement of the large colon........sounds pretty serious. I'm glad they got him to veterinarian, this can kill a horse.

He has always seemed like a rather fragile one. Of course, a lot of them are.
I wonder if the fragility has anything to do with New Year’s Day? Max is his only successful son that comes immediately to mind.
katmandu
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:56 pm

Splenic entrapment induced colic has nothing to do with "fragility". It has to do with the horse's gut anatomy.

I went through this with a mare, it can be tricky to get the colon restored to its normal position - almost a matter of luck. We got lucky and didn't have to go to surgery, I'm glad Max did also.

Bourbon Resolution is also by New Years Day (Ben Ali Gr3), although Max certainly has a more impressive CV.
Last edited by katmandu on Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BaroqueAgain1
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:03 pm

I was wondering...HOW do you get the colon/spleen un-entrapped? It didn't sound like he had surgery, so does the vet manipulate the intestines from outside the body? :shock: :?
katmandu
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:15 pm

In our case, we used a drug which constricts the spleen (it is full of RBC) and a lot of walking/jogging/bouncing (at 2:00 am on a frozen rock hard pasture in February. . . ) which worked. Rolling an anesthetized horse is also used. Horse's "guts" are not attached to the abdominal wall like ours are - sometimes this can result in them twisting or other sorts of trouble (like this). . . . on the other hand, it may have made it harder for predators attempting to eviscerate them way back when. . . .
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Northport
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:16 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:03 pm
I was wondering...HOW do you get the colon/spleen un-entrapped? It didn't sound like he had surgery, so does the vet manipulate the intestines from outside the body? :shock: :?
Pretty much what Katmandu said, lots of jogging and walking, a dose of banamine and hoping everything just settles back into place.

The next step would be that the vet has to make an incision and manipulate the intestines back into place or massage/break up an impaction (though that isn't what Max Sec had) without cutting into the intestine itself.

As long as everything humanly possibly can be done to avoiding making an incision into the intestine itself. Not that it's fatal, but it can lead to a lot more complications.
weeeeeeeee
katmandu
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:05 am

Just to clarify, in the case of splenic entrapment, the jogging/brisk walking was to try to dislodge the colon from where it was entrapped after reducing the size of the spleen with phenylephrine. Horses are rolled for the same reason.

Impaction colic is treated differently. The vet (wearing a very long glove) inserts the arm as far up the horse's rectum as possible, pulling out as much fecal material as possible. You can sometimes locate where in the gut the impaction is located by listening at quadrants. Horses' guts are quite noisy when functioning correctly and it will be eerily quiet in the area where there is a problem or you might hear an odd pinging noise. A nasogastric tube is used to introduce water/electrolytes/mineral oil to the horse's stomach/GI. They are also given a large amount of IV fluids as impaction colic is often the result of dehydration (and to keep more liquid in the GI tract). After that, you strive to get as much fluid in to the horse as possible (soaking hay with water, wet mashes, grass grazing, etc.) until the horse starts drinking and pooping again. It can take days for that to happen. Very long days. And of course you continue to monitor for signs of discomfort - if it returns, you may be looking at a drive to your nearest vet/surgeon hospital. Colic is a syndrome (it is defined by a set of symptoms, the diagnosis of the cause of the symptoms drives the treatment). Also, horses only colic at night, lol.

With apologies to OP. It's going to be a very interesting race. As is the Cotillion!
MySaladDays
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Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:16 pm

So back to thoughts about the races.

The PA derby was orig. supposed to be big showdown match race between WoW and Max, and that isnt' happening anymore.
Looks like Mr. Money will be the "wise guy horse" based on what I see friends talking about. I never wager the wise guy horse to win a race.

Right now I am thinking WoW, IMprobable and the local Spun to Run in some kinda box. WoW is not shipping in until morning of the race, but I trust the trainer knows the horse, how he ships, etc. so not really worried. But I really like Hard Spuns in general, so may just put a simple w/p/s on that one.

In the Cotillion, I can't bet BOTH favorites, as that offers no value. I think the last 2 races by both, for diffferent reasons, leave me wondering. So I may just be using Jeltrin or Street Band as keys and hope for good value over the favs. I like Sophie Doyle.

I have never even played PARX so I probably should just wager on paper, I understand it's kinda a weird track.

In other races, I like Landeskog and Get Hammered in the Gallant Bob
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Squeaky
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Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:57 pm

Will the PA Derby and Cotillion be free live streamed today? Thanks
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