Article in New York Times states Justify failed a drug test before the Derby

Somnambulist
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:53 am

Vandalay wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:40 am
he CHRB is a prime example of why racing has an image problem, the people running the show have conflicts of interest. Not just in California, but all over the country. In my years as an owner, I can say without a doubt, thoroughbred racing is an insular, political world, and it doesn't want any outsiders sticking their noses in. As an old trainer once told me, "It aint a sport anymore, it's a racket"
Well the outside world views it as amateur, hokey and at times cringe worthy. A bunch of my boyfriend's friends were over when I had a broadcast on a few weeks ago and they said it was completely cringe worthy to watch. My generation will have a hard time looking past the exploration of immigrant labor and that most big name owners are deplorable. Yay, let's cheer for Al Shaqab! I'm not 19 anymore, these issues are real and racing is microcosm of everything I currently find infuriating about America. I can't just root for a pretty horse while ignoring the political connotations of so much of it.

Racing should run itself into the ground as it sees fit, because the rest of the world doesn't even acknowledge it exists. My sister, bless her, has gone to tons of races with me and watches tons of broadcasts. She's always said it was a sport too busy licking its own ass it would never be able to see what a joke everyone thinks it is.

Sadly now the fans are starting to see it too.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
djnorth
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:00 am

Good points. I am curious to see what if any fallout (in the forms of commentaries on ESPN and other multi-sport areas) this will bring.
MySaladDays
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:39 am

CoronadosQuest wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:52 am
Sounds like a case like this happened before too (not a Triple Crown prep race though) to Mandella, Henning, and McAnally

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of ... 89876.html
Lady Blessington and Water Prospector are two horses which finished first in races at Santa Anita Race Track on February 27, 1994 and March 9, 1994, respectively.   On April 9, 1994, Top Rung finished second in a race at Santa Anita Race Track.   The California Horse Racing Board (hereinafter CHRB) took from each horse a post-race urine sample which was tested for the presence of foreign substances at a private laboratory.   The laboratory reported that each of the samples contained evidence of the presence of a prohibited drug, scopolamine, a plant alkaloid which is a depressant.   The CHRB, acting through its Board of Stewards, commenced administrative proceedings against the trainers of each of the horses, alleging violations of CHRB rules.1  On October 31, 1994, the stewards found that there had been violations and each trainer was fined.   In addition, acting upon the authority of CHRB rule 1859.5,2 the stewards ordered that each of the horses be disqualified and their owners, respondents herein, were ordered to return the purses earned by their horses.

Justify wasn't disqualified because after they knew the rules had been broken, that Justify had received a positive, the California Horse Racing Board lowered the penalties for scopolamine!!!.

This was one of the things that had me putting my head in my hands. I actually gasped, aloud.


Big money barns don't feed "cheap hay". Cheap hay might have some jimsom weed in it. It would have had to be quite a lot to test that high. Interestingly none of the other horses in the barn tested posiitive for that substance. Apparently the only horse who did was the one who needed points to get into the Derby gate.

I'm infuriated about this. And since it's a poison the fact that baffert would DO THAT to a horse.......he's no horse lover. Of course, I knew this already after the Thyro-L deaths.

IF there is such a thing as heaven, I hope they are all there waiting for him at the pearly gates, and then there's a stampede.
KatieK101
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:03 am

I’m withholding final judgment as more information is released and the story develops, but man... it’s not looking good.

Sidenote, but wasn’t there speculation that Maximum Security was drugged? He went from low claimers to the Florida Derby to the Kentucky Derby. I don’t know much about “drugging” so I didn’t pay much attention to it, but it might become a relevant topic soon.
Vandalay
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:25 am

Show me a trainer who's at the top of the standings, & I'll show you a trainer doing something illegal,..we race in Md, and a one time we were stabled near one of the top trainers barns, and we'd watch his help jog horses he'd claim, and they'd look like total cripples. two weeks later they'd win by 5, often at the same level. It isn't just me, I've talked to trainers, grooms, even jockeys who swear he's up to something. But even if (or when) he's caught, he'll get a slap on the wrist, because he has a large outfit, and fills races.
stark
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:27 am

Vandalay wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:40 am
he CHRB is a prime example of why racing has an image problem, the people running the show have conflicts of interest. Not just in California, but all over the country. In my years as an owner, I can say without a doubt, thoroughbred racing is an insular, political world, and it doesn't want any outsiders sticking their noses in. As an old trainer once told me, "It aint a sport anymore, it's a racket"
Maybe Bo Derek can invite some of her friends to serve on the Board.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:29 am

KatieK101 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:03 am
I’m withholding final judgment as more information is released and the story develops,
Big congratulations, wish the rest of the country could follow your lead, thanks.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
sweettalk
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:52 am

so we went from "his TC was rigged, no one should be happy abt it" to "he better get HotY, he's a TC winner!" to "well he was a drugged TC winner*..." i have no idea how i feel abt this horse.

* yes, i'm aware it was a test prior to the TC, but i like to think my point is understood without me having to clarify the technicalities.
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Curtis
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:54 am

stark wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:29 am
KatieK101 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:03 am
I’m withholding final judgment as more information is released and the story develops,
Big congratulations, wish the rest of the country could follow your lead, thanks.
What spoilsports you two are. Waiting for actual facts is no fun.
Somnambulist
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:57 am

Curtis wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:54 am
stark wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:29 am
KatieK101 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:03 am
I’m withholding final judgment as more information is released and the story develops,
Big congratulations, wish the rest of the country could follow your lead, thanks.
What spoilsports you two are. Waiting for actual facts is no fun.
It's the right thing to do of course. However, when you realize you have so little faith in the game to begin with it's interesting.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
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Charlie
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:01 pm

For all the talk we made about various horses winning the TC with an asterisk, will Justify be the first to actually get that *.
barbaro111
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:22 pm

Somnambulist wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:53 am
Vandalay wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:40 am
he CHRB is a prime example of why racing has an image problem, the people running the show have conflicts of interest. Not just in California, but all over the country. In my years as an owner, I can say without a doubt, thoroughbred racing is an insular, political world, and it doesn't want any outsiders sticking their noses in. As an old trainer once told me, "It aint a sport anymore, it's a racket"
Well the outside world views it as amateur, hokey and at times cringe worthy. A bunch of my boyfriend's friends were over when I had a broadcast on a few weeks ago and they said it was completely cringe worthy to watch. My generation will have a hard time looking past the exploration of immigrant labor and that most big name owners are deplorable. Yay, let's cheer for Al Shaqab! I'm not 19 anymore, these issues are real and racing is microcosm of everything I currently find infuriating about America. I can't just root for a pretty horse while ignoring the political connotations of so much of it.

Racing should run itself into the ground as it sees fit, because the rest of the world doesn't even acknowledge it exists. My sister, bless her, has gone to tons of races with me and watches tons of broadcasts. She's always said it was a sport too busy licking its own ass it would never be able to see what a joke everyone thinks it is.

Sadly now the fans are starting to see it too.
please explain why horse racing would be cringe worthy to watch? i don't quite get it. For me, i love to watch the horses run around a race track- they are magnificent and beautiful- which is why i continue to watch horse racing despite some of the ugliness ( like slaughter and
doping (for lack of a better word); I do get depressed when a horse breaks down and is euthanized: that bothers me immensly and sometimes I think about not watching again. But no way do i see horse racing as cringe worthy---
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Treve
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:28 pm

A part of me is pyrrhically justified in my general dislike and discomfort surrounding the rise and fall of this horse. Intuition maybe, I don't know but I've been so disconnected from racing this year compared to previous years, and even last year didn't follow it as closely as I normally would have, were it not for one or two horses. Another part of me is disgusted, but not surprised about the gerrymandering of the CHRB surrounding Baffert given how they chose to die on that hill years ago with those 7 dead horses.

The fact that nobody asked, yet Baffert's lawyer felt the need to release a statement speaks volumes.

To those saying to wait on passing judgment for facts... well yes it would be good to have more context but the actual facts we have thus far presented to us are pretty straightforwardly bad.

I'd say strip the horse and the trainer but don't stop there. The CHRB is a tumour that needs to excised and yet it's just a symptom of the sport at the national level. US racing doesn't love itself as much as it needs to if it wants to survive.
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KatieK101
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:36 pm

Treve wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:28 pm
The fact that nobody asked, yet Baffert's lawyer felt the need to release a statement speaks volumes.
What do you mean nobody asked? The entire racing world has been asking for a statement. Perhaps not from the lawyer specifically, but certainly from the Baffert camp.

For the record, when referring to those withholding judgement, I did acknowledge that the situation looks bad.
Tessablue
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:48 pm

I suppose I'm coming at this from a different angle. The news was so deeply unsurprising that I actually find it encouraging that it was reported in the first place. I understand feeling sad about it, but how many people were actually surprised to hear it? If you weren't, then perhaps it's time to think about this a bit differently- open secrets are the slow death of institutions, and if this can finally excise people like Arthur, Baffert, and the CHRB board, then it's a good thing no matter how painful. Will that happen quickly, or at all? No, but this sport desperately needs seismic change, and anything that pressures that change is a net gain in my mind.

What I actually find most discouraging is the sycophantic responses by our sports media. Look at the DRF and Bloodhorse articles on this- they don't even report the initial story, they just go all-in on the jimsonweed angle. It's truly pathetic. Baffert has been a timebomb for this sport for many, many years. I cannot understand why so many facets of it- from the fans to the media to the legislative bodies- seem dedicated to protecting him.
luvsgeldings
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:51 pm

months ago, maybe even longer than that.... I heard someone had written a book about baffert - so I kept waiting to hear when it was going to come out - but never did - anyone know anything about that? just curious if there was something in the book that baff didn't like and he got the whole thing scrapped.
KatieK101
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:58 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:48 pm
I suppose I'm coming at this from a different angle. The news was so deeply unsurprising that I actually find it encouraging that it was reported in the first place. I understand feeling sad about it, but how many people were actually surprised to hear it? If you weren't, then perhaps it's time to think about this a bit differently- open secrets are the slow death of institutions, and if this can finally excise people like Arthur, Baffert, and the CHRB board, then it's a good thing no matter how painful. Will that happen quickly, or at all? No, but this sport desperately needs seismic change, and anything that pressures that change is a net gain in my mind.

What I actually find most discouraging is the sycophantic responses by our sports media. Look at the DRF and Bloodhorse articles on this- they don't even report the initial story, they just go all-in on the jimsonweed angle. It's truly pathetic. Baffert has been a timebomb for this sport for many, many years. I cannot understand why so many facets of it- from the fans to the media to the legislative bodies- seem dedicated to protecting him.
This occurred to me. One of the big questions on Twitterverse is “why now”, whereas I wondered, “why did it come out at all?”

It certainly doesn’t paint the sport in a positive light, but thoroughbred racing hasn’t been painted in that light in awhile. Maybe this will bring about much needed change.
Last edited by KatieK101 on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
luvsgeldings
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:58 pm

by the way, Justify seemed to have a lot of big time owners buying in on the horse - right before the KY Derby - did they all know about this failed drug test?


the only one I feel sorry for in this whole thing, is Justify - that poor horse - it really just makes me sick for him.
KatieK101
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:02 pm

Bob released his statement, along with Elliott Walden.

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ba ... q8.twitter
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Mylute
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:03 pm

I too am withholding any stance until everything develops more.
Treve wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:28 pm
The fact that nobody asked, yet Baffert's lawyer felt the need to release a statement speaks volumes.
It doesn't really say anything. You do not have to be "asked" by anybody to give a statement when stories break or an accusation is made. If he hadn't said anything and still hadn't two days from now people would say that "speaks volumes" as well.

EDIT: It is entirely possible that the trace amounts of the drug were caused by feed or plants. Many drugs, poisons, etc. are found naturally in plants, many of which we consume every day. Poppy seeds contain morphine, apples contain arsenic, etc. and it's surprising how easily they can give false drug test readings.
Last edited by Mylute on Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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