Haskell Day

Somnambulist
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:04 pm

Plenilune wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:41 pm
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:52 pm
I know Max stayed up but, if I were a steward, I'd want to have a long conversation with Saez. That pinhead seems to think that cutting off his competition is the right way to win a race, no matter how reckless it is. :evil:
Reckless is right. His ride in the Molly Pitcher Stakes was questionable as well. It's nothing new for him though. Here's an excellent opinion piece by Gene McLean:

https://thepressboxlts.com/opinion-depa ... -hot-mess/
If a horse broke down yesterday it could have easily been the final nail in the coffin for this sport. Either the trainer can't train this horse it the jock can't ride him. I find ignoring it egregious
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Mylute
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:10 pm

After reading the opinion article I'm inclined to believe it's the fault of Saez, not Max or his training (most likely).

The veering out in the Derby might've been Max's green-ness or spooking but with Saez's affinity for cutting off competition in the most reckless way possible, I lean towards the latter.

The trainer is at fault for keeping Saez as a jock (especially if he keeps him after this) or not at least talking to him about not doing that for once.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
swale1984
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:01 pm

I thought maybe they didn't DQ Maximum Security because Monmouth already looked bad for not cancelling yesterday's card., but that blog post sure does make it look much worst than that.
prides2259
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:08 am

Saez Needs to lose the mount IMHO
As For the Official s in NJ Not Surprised they Did nothing
Lets See Saez Pull This crap in The Traver s
and Monmouth Canceled the Sunday Card Due to the Heat



Strange odd world in TB Land Lately
vfan
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:22 pm

Squeaky wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:15 pm
Joevia scratched-no reason given. Field down to six.
Joevia was scratched from the Haskell due to a foot issue, per the trainer:

"“He has a little pulse in the foot," Sacco said. "It may be an abscess that’s ready to pop. That foot was a little warm and we just couldn’t take any chances."

source: https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... ravers_123
vfan
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:29 pm

stark wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:44 pm
Just have to ask myself....

Did any owner scratch their horse because of the weather?

Did any trainer scratch their horse because of the weather?
I can give one example who scratched - at Woodbine, not Monmouth. They had pretty awful heat, too, and trainer Sarah Ritchie scratched because it was too hot. Or so GatorKitten claims :) https://twitter.com/Gatorkitten/status/ ... 8742932480

I'm sure other trainers have scratched due to heat, but unless they get interviewed or someone tweets about it we'll likely never know.
Apollo
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:38 pm

firehorse wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:58 pm
I thought running the stakes later was a good compromise. Living in South Florida I've never understood the need to start running at 12:30 in the summer when it's light til 8:00 anyway. Was very happy to see Maximum Security get another win, I don't see he did anything wrong, seemed to stay in his path on the turn.
As another South Florida resident, agreed on all accounts. Saez isn't my favorite rider but he did nothing wrong. Gaffalione was the villain in the Derby for his incomparably stupid scared maneuver, cutting outside into heavy traffic. Gee, what could go wrong? There was obviously a clipping of the heels in that race that forced Maximum Security to veer outward. Nothing else makes a fleck of sense, given that the horse continued to have his head and eyes aimed at the target instead of far outside, where they would have gone if he were indeed drifting. Unfortunately we didn't have an ideal angle of what happened, so it allowed the dunces to completely misinterpret what transpired in that race.

Then the dunces predictably overreacted to Maximum Security's comeback loss. That's why you are seeing the comical interpretations of the Haskell. They were confident he'd lose and when that didn't happen now they are scrambling for another bail out.

Just too bad the public in general wasn't as dense as the wise guy dunces. The matchup prices on Maximum Security were okay in the Haskell but not what I thought they might be, given all the media types finding every excuse to pick somebody else. Laffit Pincay was virtually the only one who retained a sense of big picture clarity.
peeptoad
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:23 am

Apollo wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:38 pm
firehorse wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:58 pm
I thought running the stakes later was a good compromise. Living in South Florida I've never understood the need to start running at 12:30 in the summer when it's light til 8:00 anyway. Was very happy to see Maximum Security get another win, I don't see he did anything wrong, seemed to stay in his path on the turn.
As another South Florida resident, agreed on all accounts. Saez isn't my favorite rider but he did nothing wrong. Gaffalione was the villain in the Derby for his incomparably stupid scared maneuver, cutting outside into heavy traffic. Gee, what could go wrong? There was obviously a clipping of the heels in that race that forced Maximum Security to veer outward. Nothing else makes a fleck of sense, given that the horse continued to have his head and eyes aimed at the target instead of far outside, where they would have gone if he were indeed drifting. Unfortunately we didn't have an ideal angle of what happened, so it allowed the dunces to completely misinterpret what transpired in that race.

Then the dunces predictably overreacted to Maximum Security's comeback loss. That's why you are seeing the comical interpretations of the Haskell. They were confident he'd lose and when that didn't happen now they are scrambling for another bail out.

Just too bad the public in general wasn't as dense as the wise guy dunces. The matchup prices on Maximum Security were okay in the Haskell but not what I thought they might be, given all the media types finding every excuse to pick somebody else. Laffit Pincay was virtually the only one who retained a sense of big picture clarity.
Maximum Security is the top 3yo male on dirt right now, pending the Travers and PA Derby of course. Only one horse has finished in front of him thus far in his career (a horse he justly beat in the Haskell) and he's the only 3yo to win more than 1 G1 route race (on dirt). He actually "won" 3, but was only given credit for 2. Hopefully after September he'll have added another to clinch the 3yo division.
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Curtis
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:48 pm

peeptoad wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:23 am
Apollo wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:38 pm
firehorse wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:58 pm
I thought running the stakes later was a good compromise. Living in South Florida I've never understood the need to start running at 12:30 in the summer when it's light til 8:00 anyway. Was very happy to see Maximum Security get another win, I don't see he did anything wrong, seemed to stay in his path on the turn.
As another South Florida resident, agreed on all accounts. Saez isn't my favorite rider but he did nothing wrong. Gaffalione was the villain in the Derby for his incomparably stupid scared maneuver, cutting outside into heavy traffic. Gee, what could go wrong? There was obviously a clipping of the heels in that race that forced Maximum Security to veer outward. Nothing else makes a fleck of sense, given that the horse continued to have his head and eyes aimed at the target instead of far outside, where they would have gone if he were indeed drifting. Unfortunately we didn't have an ideal angle of what happened, so it allowed the dunces to completely misinterpret what transpired in that race.

Then the dunces predictably overreacted to Maximum Security's comeback loss. That's why you are seeing the comical interpretations of the Haskell. They were confident he'd lose and when that didn't happen now they are scrambling for another bail out.

Just too bad the public in general wasn't as dense as the wise guy dunces. The matchup prices on Maximum Security were okay in the Haskell but not what I thought they might be, given all the media types finding every excuse to pick somebody else. Laffit Pincay was virtually the only one who retained a sense of big picture clarity.
Maximum Security is the top 3yo male on dirt right now, pending the Travers and PA Derby of course. Only one horse has finished in front of him thus far in his career (a horse he justly beat in the Haskell) and he's the only 3yo to win more than 1 G1 route race (on dirt). He actually "won" 3, but was only given credit for 2. Hopefully after September he'll have added another to clinch the 3yo division.
Is the point that Maximum Security was a better horse than King For a Day Saturday or that the latter could have been fourth or even third had he not been checked sharply?
peeptoad
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:51 pm

Curtis wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:48 pm
peeptoad wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:23 am
Apollo wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:38 pm


As another South Florida resident, agreed on all accounts. Saez isn't my favorite rider but he did nothing wrong. Gaffalione was the villain in the Derby for his incomparably stupid scared maneuver, cutting outside into heavy traffic. Gee, what could go wrong? There was obviously a clipping of the heels in that race that forced Maximum Security to veer outward. Nothing else makes a fleck of sense, given that the horse continued to have his head and eyes aimed at the target instead of far outside, where they would have gone if he were indeed drifting. Unfortunately we didn't have an ideal angle of what happened, so it allowed the dunces to completely misinterpret what transpired in that race.

Then the dunces predictably overreacted to Maximum Security's comeback loss. That's why you are seeing the comical interpretations of the Haskell. They were confident he'd lose and when that didn't happen now they are scrambling for another bail out.

Just too bad the public in general wasn't as dense as the wise guy dunces. The matchup prices on Maximum Security were okay in the Haskell but not what I thought they might be, given all the media types finding every excuse to pick somebody else. Laffit Pincay was virtually the only one who retained a sense of big picture clarity.
Maximum Security is the top 3yo male on dirt right now, pending the Travers and PA Derby of course. Only one horse has finished in front of him thus far in his career (a horse he justly beat in the Haskell) and he's the only 3yo to win more than 1 G1 route race (on dirt). He actually "won" 3, but was only given credit for 2. Hopefully after September he'll have added another to clinch the 3yo division.
Is the point that Maximum Security was a better horse than King For a Day Saturday or that the latter could have been fourth or even third had he not been checked sharply?
hard to say, but he was backing out of there pretty quickly before the claim of foul occurred. Don't think he would have finished ahead of where he wound up actually.
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Curtis
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:32 pm

peeptoad wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:51 pm
Curtis wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:48 pm
peeptoad wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:23 am

Maximum Security is the top 3yo male on dirt right now, pending the Travers and PA Derby of course. Only one horse has finished in front of him thus far in his career (a horse he justly beat in the Haskell) and he's the only 3yo to win more than 1 G1 route race (on dirt). He actually "won" 3, but was only given credit for 2. Hopefully after September he'll have added another to clinch the 3yo division.
Is the point that Maximum Security was a better horse than King For a Day Saturday or that the latter could have been fourth or even third had he not been checked sharply?
hard to say, but he was backing out of there pretty quickly before the claim of foul occurred. Don't think he would have finished ahead of where he wound up actually.
I think his backing up suddenly was due to being squeezed and the loss of momentum cost him a chance at a better placing. It was a judgement call. Going into the race I saw him as probably third best behind Max and Mucho Gusto, provided the latter runs after shipping. I didn’t bet the race so in the end it didn’t effect me one way or the other. I can’t bet a race like that. To me, it is like a 50k claimer being in for 10k. You know who the best horse is but will he stay together? I think Max is fragile—they all are, but he more than most. When you bet on him your betting as much as to whether he’ll end up in one piece.
peeptoad
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:49 pm

Curtis wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:32 pm
peeptoad wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:51 pm
Curtis wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:48 pm


Is the point that Maximum Security was a better horse than King For a Day Saturday or that the latter could have been fourth or even third had he not been checked sharply?
hard to say, but he was backing out of there pretty quickly before the claim of foul occurred. Don't think he would have finished ahead of where he wound up actually.
I think his backing up suddenly was due to being squeezed and the loss of momentum cost him a chance at a better placing. It was a judgement call. Going into the race I saw him as probably third best behind Max and Mucho Gusto, provided the latter runs after shipping. I didn’t bet the race so in the end it didn’t effect me one way or the other. I can’t bet a race like that. To me, it is like a 50k claimer being in for 10k. You know who the best horse is but will he stay together? I think Max is fragile—they all are, but he more than most. When you bet on him your betting as much as to whether he’ll end up in one piece.
It's a judgement call, as you say. To my eye he was in the process of backing up before and supposed foul occurred.
I actually bet Everfast since I thought he would get a fast pace to run at... didn't anticipate the scratch of Joevia in that regard and I wasn't in a position to alter my bet at the last minute anyhow.
The horse may be fragile as you say, but I'll give him this: he brings his game and runs his race every time. He's definitely one of the more consistent types in this crop.
On to the Dandy, which drew a short, but solid field.
swale1984
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Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:28 am

Curtis wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:32 pm

I think his backing up suddenly was due to being squeezed and the loss of momentum cost him a chance at a better placing. It was a judgement call. Going into the race I saw him as probably third best behind Max and Mucho Gusto, provided the latter runs after shipping. I didn’t bet the race so in the end it didn’t effect me one way or the other. I can’t bet a race like that. To me, it is like a 50k claimer being in for 10k. You know who the best horse is but will he stay together? I think Max is fragile—they all are, but he more than most. When you bet on him your betting as much as to whether he’ll end up in one piece.
I was listening to At The Races the other day and it seemed that Andy Serling thought similarly. Said Johnny V was irritated for a reason and he's normally the first to say that he had no horse left if that's the case. Once Johnny had to take up so sharply,(I mean, it looked like KFAD half reared) he knew he was done so I think he just took care of his mount the rest of the race.
peeptoad
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Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 pm

Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:32 pm

I must have category 1 eyeballs. I'm in the wrong country.
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