Kentucky Derby : Do you agree with the stewards decision?

Kentucky Derby : Do you agree with the stewards decision?

Yes
64
72%
No
25
28%
 
Total votes: 89
Apollo
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:05 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 5:14 pm

stark wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:39 pm
One thing is for certain..... If Tyler would have taken the Calvin Borail trip on the inside none of this would have happened, heck he might've even won the race!
My apologies stark. I just make exactly the same point within a very long post. I hadn't seen yours.
MR-W
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:46 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Apollo wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:13 pm
I love the poll here with 70/30 agreeing with the disqualification. Very predictable for a racing site, where purity is gold. After all, this is 1948. What could possibly go wrong? Meanwhile on Paulick Report they ask if the decision was Good or Bad for horse racing. The tally is 65% Bad 35% Good. That is the reality of the matter, and this sport cannot afford anything highest profile that is 65% Bad 35% Good.
This poll was taken right after the race when this particular video was not available. As I mentioned earlier in this post where I showed the link to this video, it made me change my mind with more evidence to look at.
Spahny
Posts: 1033
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:02 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 7:21 pm

This is now becoming a kind of weak episode of Law And Order where we get to see the defense give one interpretation of the crime video and then the prosecution giving a completely different reading of the exact same footage...Both sides telling you what to look at and what it means... Otherwise known as, Lawyering

See whatever you want to see or whatever floats your boat. Nothing is going to change.

Just race on. Maybe they can settle it on the track. That would be better than all of this.
Somnambulist
Posts: 7688
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:59 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 7:36 pm

Spahny swoops in for the win.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
User avatar
Sparrow Castle
Posts: 6021
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:44 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 7:36 pm

Some of you might be too young to remember the Zapruder film. This is starting to feel a little like that to me, on a different scale of course.
Spahny
Posts: 1033
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:02 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 7:49 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:36 pm
Some of you might be too young to remember the Zapruder film. This is starting to feel a little like that to me, on a different scale of course.
As a proud Zapruder Gen myself I kind of like the irony of it.
User avatar
Sparrow Castle
Posts: 6021
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:44 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 8:41 pm

Spahny wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:49 pm
Sparrow Castle wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:36 pm
Some of you might be too young to remember the Zapruder film. This is starting to feel a little like that to me, on a different scale of course.
As a proud Zapruder Gen myself I kind of like the irony of it.
LOL, yep. And this video could still be discussed 55 years from now.
Mintano
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:41 pm

Sat May 11, 2019 9:44 pm

ElPrado2 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:46 am
While we are arguing all of this from now until 2063, I hope they do a scan of MS' right front sometime.
Changing leads early could have been the sign of an ouch. Little ouches become bigger.
Maximum Security Trainer Says Time Off May Be Needed After Kentucky Derby
firehorse
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 pm

Sun May 12, 2019 12:32 pm

Mintano wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:44 pm
ElPrado2 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:46 am
While we are arguing all of this from now until 2063, I hope they do a scan of MS' right front sometime.
Changing leads early could have been the sign of an ouch. Little ouches become bigger.
Maximum Security Trainer Says Time Off May Be Needed After Kentucky Derby
Am happy to hear they are going to take a look, if not injured he may just need a breather, he's run his heart out in all his races and looked very thin after the Derby.
stark
Posts: 4982
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Mon May 13, 2019 9:42 am

Did the jock get days?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
luvsgeldings
Posts: 936
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:18 pm
Location: SoCal

Mon May 13, 2019 10:25 am

firehorse, I agree with you. MS did run his heart out and he looked very thin to me too after the race. I can believe he needs time off, poor boy.

stark, just read that Saez got 15 days - didn't Assael Espinoza only get 10 days for that reckless ride he gave at Del Mar? the one that directly caused the death of that other innocent horse in the race? (and I think Nakatani is still recovering from).
firehorse
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 pm

Mon May 13, 2019 10:59 am

I don't know why I'm surprised, looks like they are trying to make a point (any point to avoid having to limit field size?)
User avatar
Mylute
Posts: 2827
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:20 pm
Location: Alabama

Mon May 13, 2019 11:05 am

This was from a few days ago but check out this absolute CRINGE.

Image
Image
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
Catalina
Posts: 3607
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:08 pm
Location: South Texas

Mon May 13, 2019 11:44 am

stark wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:42 am
Did the jock get days?
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... infraction
peeptoad
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 pm

Mon May 13, 2019 12:19 pm

The suspension would be laughable if it wasn't clear that it was handed down by the stewards as a means to back up their decision regarding the DQ.
Heck, Espinoza got less time for his ride that resulted in the death of another horse and an injury to another jockey in that race last summer at DMR.
luvsgeldings wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:25 am
stark, just read that Saez got 15 days - didn't Assael Espinoza only get 10 days for that reckless ride he gave at Del Mar? the one that directly caused the death of that other innocent horse in the race? (and I think Nakatani is still recovering from).
edit- this is what I was thinking of.
It is what it is I suppose... I won't be betting on any KY races for awhile though.
stark
Posts: 4982
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Mon May 13, 2019 12:43 pm

Thanks, I thought maybe I had missed the suspension news.
As usual, the comment section at Bloodhorse pretty much sums it up, ;)
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
luvsgeldings
Posts: 936
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:18 pm
Location: SoCal

Mon May 13, 2019 1:11 pm

yes peeptoad, I was thinking the same thing when I read about the suspension that saez got this morning.
Spahny
Posts: 1033
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:02 pm

Mon May 13, 2019 4:31 pm

On the subject of tough dq's...

At the Hardrock 100 last year French runner Xavier Thevnard was disqualified from the race for accepting aid from his own crew support team. The aid was given at a highway crossing and outside of a designated aid station. No runner aid is allowed outside of the official aid stations that are located 8 to 9 miles apart along the race course. Race organizers had to investigate what exactly happened with Thevnard and his team at about mile 50 of the race and it took some time to gather all the information. They decided to disqualify him after talking with his crew but were not able to make contact with him and inform him of their decision until mile 90 simply because of how remote most of the course is. The race is run in the San Juan mountains of southwestern Colorado. The race organizers official statement made it clear that he was not dq'd for cheating but it was a technical rules violation that they felt they could not be equivocal about, and so the difficult decision was reached.

What was his crime, you may be asking? He took a handful of ice from his crew who met him just outside of Ouray, about 2 miles past the prior aid station in town. The crews intent was just to cheer him on and this road crossing has been popular with many crews just for this reason. It's one of the last places where you have a chance see your runner before they disappear again into the wilderness. The 'violation' was reported to race officials by a spectator. I'm sure it was a spontaneous act by the runner to accept the ice cubes. Xavier Thevnard was leading the race by almost 2 hours and on his way to victory when he was notified at mile 90. He was understandably angry at first about the dq but very quicklly got over it and came to understand the race organizers point of view. If they allow a hand full of ice this year then what happens next year if somebody gets their water bottle refilled by a helpful resident at the same location? Thevnard did not file a lawsuit against the race director of Hardrock. Instead Xavier went out the next month and won the Ultra Trail du Mont Blanc. The biggest trail race in Europe.

Xavier has made it back in to this year's race and he'll once again be one of the favorites. You need to be a resilient sort to do this kind of race for fun. Unfortunately for Xavier this year's race will also include 4 time winner and course record holder Kilian Jornet. So if it's not one thing, it's another.

Should be a good race though. Xavier will have a lot of people pulling for him to win it. Race director, Dale Garland, will be the head cheer leader.

https://runningmagazine.ca/trail-runnin ... community/


Here's a short video of Kilian Jornet and Jason Schlarb leading with Xavier Thevnard chasing in 3rd wearing the yellow vest. The lead group from the 2016 race... Scree skiing one of the easy downhills at Hardrock 100.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4qsrSsPRns
Last edited by Spahny on Mon May 13, 2019 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sparrow Castle
Posts: 6021
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:44 pm

Mon May 13, 2019 5:41 pm

Hovdey: Weathering a Category 1 storm of controversy
The third week in May began with the fervent prayer on everyone’s lips that Saturday’s 144th running of the Preakness Stakes would transpire without the words “inquiry” or “objection” becoming part of the post-race conversation, and that the identity of the Pimlico stewards would remain anonymous outside their immediate families.

The sport remains badly hung over from the disqualification of first-place finisher Maximum Security in the Kentucky Derby. Hung over, as in blurred vision, cotton mouth, throbbing head, and promises on bended knee that it will never ever happen again.

And yet, there have been winners disqualified in the Travers, the Santa Anita Handicap, the Woodward, the Whitney, the Arlington Million, the Hollywood Gold Cup, the Beldame, the Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Fillies, and three times in the Champagne Stakes, one of them involving Secretariat. As if he needed to cheat to win.

Given such history, what makes the Kentucky Derby so special? Why would that particular contest be exempt from normality, and why should transgressions in the Derby be judged any differently from the Humana Distaff, the Woodford Reserve, or any of the other major events played out in the oppressive crucible of Derby Day at Churchill Downs?

The answer, as the world discovered, is that the Derby is not immune, neither from fouls on the playing field nor rulings from the stewards when such fouls are determined to have crossed the line.

Scott Chaney has been a California steward since 2006. He has been in the stand for five runnings of the Breeders’ Cup during that period, most memorably the 2014 renewal at Santa Anita Park when the start of the Classic was universally scrutinized, and when the name “Bayern” became a trigger word in betting circles. The horse bothered others at the start, then won a close finish 10 furlongs later.

“Had we taken that horse down, I think there would have been just as much controversy as there was by leaving him up,” Chaney said this week. “Clearly there was interference at the start. The subjective application of the rules comes after that. When we polled some international stewards afterwards, 70 percent of them thought it was ridiculous even to consider interference at the start of a mile and a quarter race, much less disqualify a horse.”

Like those international officials, Chaney is a proponent of the U.S. adopting what is known as Category 1 standards for judging interference calls.
More: https://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-weather ... s/all-news
MR-W
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:46 pm

Mon May 13, 2019 9:48 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:41 pm
Hovdey: Weathering a Category 1 storm of controversy


“Had we taken that horse down, I think there would have been just as much controversy as there was by leaving him up,” Chaney said this week. “Clearly there was interference at the start. The subjective application of the rules comes after that. When we polled some international stewards afterwards, 70 percent of them thought it was ridiculous even to consider interference at the start of a mile and a quarter race, much less disqualify a horse.”


More: https://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-weather ... s/all-news
Not only was Shared Belief hammered at the start, but Moreno, the legit front running speed in the race was interfered with. Bayern had a free run at that point and should have come down. It might have upset certain bettors and connections but it would have been the right call to make.
Post Reply