2019 Kentucky Derby

Tessablue
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:05 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:20 pm

Not sure if anyone else still has the channel on, but they just cut back to the announcers for a few minutes. Bailey and Moss both agreed that Max Sec was the best horse but deserved to come down because he impeded multiple other contenders and nearly caused a horrible disaster. They also showed a slow-mo closeup of War of Will's legs.

Personally, I think the "War of Will's connections didn't even claim foul" argument is weak, because winners never get taken down in big races and they probably figured there was no chance of anything happening. Plus, it's not like they benefited all that much from the DQ. I do think some of the "Country House wouldn't have won anyway" dialogue is influenced by the fact that DQ's usually involve the first two finishers. But the rules pretty uniformly state that impeding another horse's placement results in a DQ, regardless of which horse in the race was best.

Need to rewatch it a bunch of times, but was Country House carried wide by all that activity?
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Palace Malice
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:03 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:20 pm

I really hope people don't hate Country House. It's not the fault of the horse. His connections and the stewards should be blamed but not him.
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Miss Woodford
Posts: 1148
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:34 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:21 pm

Big Ten wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:16 pm
I'm done with horse racing.

Second time I got robbed from these "officials" this year. I had money on the Saints over the Rams and they didn't call pass interference. But in a race where Max didn't interfere with a 65-1 longshot, here they did.

This result pretty much is telling me never to bet on sports anymore. They're all rigged for their pockets. It's all really about politics and fattening their own pockets. All sports to me is as real as the WWE.
Nooo, come to the steeplechasing side! There's no betting at most hunt meets in the US but it's still fun to watch. Virginia Gold Cup was today but the Winterthur Bowl is live streaming tomorrow afternoon! https://www.nationalsteeplechase.com/

I'm on a mission to convert the whole forum btw, jump racing is the superior form of racing. Praise Sheppard.
Tessablue
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:05 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:22 pm

Also, here's a picture from that twitter thread CQ posted (specifically from https://twitter.com/papabear11865/statu ... 4952988676):

Image

Terrifying.
carole
Posts: 2611
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:57 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:23 pm

Maximum Security was officially placed 17th by the way

Official order of finish:
1st Country House
2nd Code of Honor
3rd Tacitus
4th Improbable
5th Game Winner
6th Master Fencer
7th War of Will
8th Plus Que Parfait
9th Win Win Win
10th Cutting Humour
11th By My Standards
12th Vekoma
13th Bodexpress
14th Tax
15th Roadster
16th Long Range Toddy
17th Maximum Security
18th Spinoff
19th Gray Magician
Last edited by carole on Sat May 04, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Big Ten
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:35 am

Sat May 04, 2019 8:23 pm

I have money on the Milwaukee Bucks to win the NBA championship this June and I bet I will lose that one too because the refs are going to favor the Golden State Warriors because they're the bigger market team.

I had a bet that had the Super Bowl being Patriots vs Saints, and they had to rob me there. I would've won $200 easily because I also had Pats beating the Saints. It was a cold exacta. Here the stewards robbed me for $500.

Objections rarely get overturned. They didn't even place the betting favorite in the super. That's how greedy they were by wanting to take the betting public's money by killing several tickets.
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
stark
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 04, 2019 8:23 pm

Palace Malice wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:20 pm
I really hope people don't hate Country House. It's not the fault of the horse. His connections and the stewards should be blamed but not him.
There will forever be an asterisk by Mott's first Derby win in the record books.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Spahny
Posts: 1037
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:02 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:24 pm

tcw wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:06 pm
Spahny wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:49 pm
What's not being considered is that War of Will appeared to be moving well before he was impeded. It's impossible to say that without the foul he would have placed better but there is no doubt he was improving his position before Maximum Security took his path away.
Agreed. If anyone had a right to make a claim it would have been WoW, but for whatever reason he didn't. He appeared to be moving well and did lose momentum, but unfortunately we'll never know how much it ultimately affected him.
I think he was dq'd for the foul on War of Will. I don't think the stewards cared who filed the complaint. But we haven't really heard from the judges yet.
sweettalk
Posts: 2135
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:25 pm

Somnambulist wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:14 pm
sweettalk wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm
it's ended my enjoyment. last year's TC was all tin foil hats, this year opened up with nearly 2 dozen dead horses that santa anita wasn't real sharp about handling, the sales vet records being questioned (more than usual and some ugly allegations coming out), now this? horse racing is supposed to be fun, and so far it hasn't been, anymore. inconsistency in the DQs is what makes this one so hard to handle (i had no money on the race, it's not a money/sentiment thing) - we've seen worse on equally large stages that were swept under the rug (i'm a pro-bayern DQ, had no money there either, also the 98 belmont was pretty iffy). unfortunately, i'm coming up empty on enthusiasm for the sport.

this result isn't the only reason i think i'm tapping out, not at all, it's just a last straw kind of thing.
I can understand this. I think you should take some time to think on this.

I went to the Wood Memorial and literally left in tears because of the amount of disgusting men undressing me with their eyes at every moment. I stuck it out and felt like I was giving up on racing by leaving, but I just couldn't. On the heels of the all the SA bullshit I felt ready to be done. But no one makes good decisions made and unhappy. Passions ebb and flow with the distractions for life. For my boyfriend to get off a weekend date requires basically 5 months of fore-planning and when I said I didn't even want to go to the Belmont he told me to enjoy the sport when we still have it. It really resonated with me.

Of course our enthusiasm changes over time -- we change over time, too. I think some time away with some introspection is always best. If anything it provides some breathing space.
there's no like button here but the fact that your support moved me to tear-blurred vision should say it all. also, fellow female here, def very angry on your behalf for your experience there. not ok at all, glad you left there safe at least.
carole
Posts: 2611
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:57 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:29 pm

carole wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:23 pm
Maximum Security was officially placed 17th by the way

Official order of finish:
1st Country House
2nd Code of Honor
3rd Tacitus
4th Improbable
5th Game Winner
6th Master Fencer
7th War of Will
8th Plus Que Parfait
9th Win Win Win
10th Cutting Humour
11th By My Standards
12th Vekoma
13th Bodexpress
14th Tax
15th Roadster
16th Long Range Toddy
17th Maximum Security
18th Spinoff
19th Gray Magician
Updated with official order of finish
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Big Ten
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:35 am

Sat May 04, 2019 8:30 pm

From nailing the winner to becoming the most controversial Kentucky Derby decision of all-time. I actually rewatched a little of it on YouTube when Max swung to his left and I still call it BS. It happened in the first turn!

I won't look at Bill Mott the same way ever again..
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
Tessablue
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:05 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:31 pm

carole
Posts: 2611
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:57 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:32 pm

Big Ten wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:30 pm
From nailing the winner to becoming the most controversial Kentucky Derby decision of all-time. I actually rewatched a little of it on YouTube when Max swung to his left and I still call it BS. It happened in the first turn!

I won't look at Bill Mott the same way ever again..
It happened on the final turn, turning for home.
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Mylute
Posts: 3819
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:20 pm
Location: Alabama

Sat May 04, 2019 8:35 pm

Doubt that the stewards' decision had to do with their being greedy and wanting to keep money.

Bet it 100% had to do with PETAphiles breathing down our neck.

Although I'm sure you'll say "bUt PeTa iS r IghT."

"I'll never look at Bill Mott the same way"

He had really nothing to do with it. It was the jock. All he said was if it were a claimer on a Tuesday, he'd be taken down. And he's right.
Last edited by Mylute on Sat May 04, 2019 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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THIRTYSIXRED
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:45 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:36 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:52 pm
Wait I just realized I have no idea how to score the Derby Pool contest now. I suddenly disagree with the decision!!
You score it strictly based on official order of finish. Maximum Security was placed 18th and earns ZERO points.
Horsebagger
Posts: 2150
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:38 pm

stark wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:58 pm
With Shug and Mott combining for a $3,000 exacta for each $2 invested, there's got to be some happy campers out there somewhere.
Math says they're outnumbered by those tearing up what they thought were winning tickets.
Spahny
Posts: 1037
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:02 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:42 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:52 pm
Wait I just realized I have no idea how to score the Derby Pool contest now. I suddenly disagree with the decision!!
I looked at it and you have one clear winner that had the trifecta.

I was wondering what would happen if you had to go to the margin of victory tie breaker?
Tessablue
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:05 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:45 pm

Spahny wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:42 pm
Tessablue wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:52 pm
Wait I just realized I have no idea how to score the Derby Pool contest now. I suddenly disagree with the decision!!
I looked at it and you have one clear winner that had the trifecta.

I was wondering what would happen if you had to go to the margin of victory tie breaker?
Despair, because the official chart isn't out and I have no idea what all the margins were in the first place! Hopefully it doesn't come to that. I think I'll score it as the official order of finish, but I'll score it the other way too just as a bonus. Should be up soonish.
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CoronadosQuest
Posts: 1635
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:44 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:47 pm

Just curious but was there any quotes from Casse or Tyler on the incident? I am really curious to hear their thoughts on what happened.
stark
Posts: 5414
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 04, 2019 8:48 pm

Jay Privman
‏@DRFPrivman

The number of things that led to Country House and Prat winning are many. Mott ran in the Arkansas Derby to get enough points. Prat got the mount owing to Mike Smith's decision to ride Omaha Beach. If Smith had chosen Roadster, Prat would have been named on Omaha Beach.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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