2019 Kentucky Derby

User avatar
CoronadosQuest
Posts: 1592
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:44 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 7:53 pm

Spahny wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:49 pm
What's not being considered is that War of Will appeared to be moving well before he was impeded. It's impossible to say that without the foul he would have placed better but there is no doubt he was improving his position before Maximum Security took his path away.
Yea, War of Will definitely lost his momentum having to be taken up like that. Hard to say if he would have finished better had that not happened.
Horsebagger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 7:54 pm

firehorse wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:47 pm
CoronadosQuest wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:28 pm
How many people mad that Maximum Security was DQed are also mad that Bayern was not DQed? Question of the day for me
That would be me, can't help it - the horse ran lights out. I am now going to go out for margaritas - first I will have to put on the ugly boot they gave me for my broken toe - broken by the 12 year old OTTB I ride who spooked when 10 chickens behind him freaked out and all tried to fly at the same time - he spun around and landed on my toe doing so. The chickens are there everyday, you can't stop a horse from spooking, I have far more sympathy for Maximum Security, his jockey and connections - it could have been a disaster, but it wasn't, and Country House was never going to beat him.

I agree 100% with your last sentence. But that was an incident that couldn't be ignored, and I'll say that to anyone in the sport. Tough sport, but just because everyone came home alive can't be used as a reason why it was a bad call. Of course, just my opinion, but look forward to finding someone in the sport to say it 'wasn't a foul'. Even Jerry and the other guy on the broadcast in closing came to their senses and said so definitively, after not seeing it clearly for most of those agonizing 20 minutes.
Horsebagger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 7:55 pm

CoronadosQuest wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:53 pm
Spahny wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:49 pm
What's not being considered is that War of Will appeared to be moving well before he was impeded. It's impossible to say that without the foul he would have placed better but there is no doubt he was improving his position before Maximum Security took his path away.
Yea, War of Will definitely lost his momentum having to be taken up like that. Hard to say if he would have finished better had that not happened.
I wondered also why Tyler held his tongue. Was it a 'business' decision no to object?
User avatar
Mylute
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:20 pm
Location: Alabama

Sat May 04, 2019 7:56 pm

Horsebagger wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:48 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:35 pm
Horsebagger wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:32 pm


And? Your don't like asterisks?
What I mean is, when in discussion, people will always have to go back and say, "Well, Max actually won", and then that'll start up a debate. And then, similar to how for the longest we had to mention that the Derby was sponsored by Yum! in every mention of the event's name, we'll have to say this.
Yes, I know. I'm sorry for causing you to be collateral damage in this debate. At least asterisks won't end the sport is my point. And neither will DQs, even in the sports biggest race.
Yes, that's what's good. It's fine.

No doubt the antis were watching in earnest, ready to screech 10x louder than the folks mad on twitter right now if they hadn't put up the DQ.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
stark
Posts: 4977
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 04, 2019 7:58 pm

With Shug and Mott combining for a $3,000 exacta for each $2 invested, there's got to be some happy campers out there somewhere.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
User avatar
pointgivenfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:59 am

Sat May 04, 2019 7:59 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:44 pm
Somnambulist wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:41 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:35 pm
What I mean is, when in discussion, people will always have to go back and say, "Well, Max actually won", and then that'll start up a debate. And then, similar to how for the longest we had to mention that the Derby was sponsored by Yum! in every mention of the event's name, we'll have to say this.
I used to think this was the case, but it never really is. No one remembers what a sham of a career Zenyatta had.
By sham, do you mean pretty much all of her wins were on synthetic?
She means that Zenyatta was put in the softest spots in 18 out of 20 starts, and you can make a case for the 19th being the softest option as well.
"I am the man who with the utmost daring discovered what had been discovered before." - G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy.
Avatar: Goldikova - 2010 Prix de la Foret, copyright yours truly. =)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/timstephansen/
User avatar
Insane Crazy
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:26 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:00 pm

I realize now as I emerge from the post-DQ haze that I may have blacked out a little when the decision came down. Despite the two TC winners in the last 4 years, there's still a 10 year old girl in there who is devastated about War Emblem losing the Belmont. Whew. I went straight to fury at the potential of a TC being swept away -- but honestly, it doesn't matter as much to me now. Not to THAT degree.

I mean. He's my Derby winner. He ran like wildfire. I would love for them to just go for it and gun for the next two, though.

Why didn't War of Will's jockey put in the inquiry? I think there's something about it being Country House, who was clearly not going to win, being the name on the inquiry. Just weird stuff.

I'm sitting with two non-racing fans and they think Bill Mott looks real, real bad here. I'm not sure how that'll go over in general. He made it sound like he was doing it because it was "the right call." But he also just happened to get a Derby win out of it. I dunno. Made my skin feel icky.

Luis Saez broke my heart walking away.

Thought game:

If MS were in a tight race for, say, HOTY come year's end (obviously that's a big if, but go with me)...would you factor his Derby into it positively? Do you look at him and say well, this horse's performance in the Derby means a lot more to me than the number on it?
Last edited by Insane Crazy on Sat May 04, 2019 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
stark
Posts: 4977
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 04, 2019 8:01 pm

Was there ever a stewards inquiry posted or was it just Flavien Prat's objection that they took action on?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
carole
Posts: 2476
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:57 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:02 pm

Some folks on Twitter say that Code of Honor was impeded by Maximum Security too and that he almost got knocked into the rail? I don't think that's fair though, Code of Honor went through the gap that opened up when MS veered out and when he came back in it got a bit tight.
stark
Posts: 4977
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 04, 2019 8:03 pm

I'm still shocked that NBC didn't turn away to hockey, maybe the times are changing for the bettor?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
sweettalk
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm

it's ended my enjoyment. last year's TC was all tin foil hats, this year opened up with nearly 2 dozen dead horses that santa anita wasn't real sharp about handling, the sales vet records being questioned (more than usual and some ugly allegations coming out), now this? horse racing is supposed to be fun, and so far it hasn't been, anymore. inconsistency in the DQs is what makes this one so hard to handle (i had no money on the race, it's not a money/sentiment thing) - we've seen worse on equally large stages that were swept under the rug (i'm a pro-bayern DQ, had no money there either, also the 98 belmont was pretty iffy). unfortunately, i'm coming up empty on enthusiasm for the sport.

this result isn't the only reason i think i'm tapping out, not at all, it's just a last straw kind of thing.
tcw
Posts: 1125
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:18 am

Sat May 04, 2019 8:06 pm

Spahny wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:49 pm
What's not being considered is that War of Will appeared to be moving well before he was impeded. It's impossible to say that without the foul he would have placed better but there is no doubt he was improving his position before Maximum Security took his path away.
Agreed. If anyone had a right to make a claim it would have been WoW, but for whatever reason he didn't. He appeared to be moving well and did lose momentum, but unfortunately we'll never know how much it ultimately affected him.
Somnambulist
Posts: 7687
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:59 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:06 pm

carole wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:02 pm
Some folks on Twitter say that Code of Honor was impeded by Maximum Security too and that he almost got knocked into the rail? I don't think that's fair though, Code of Honor went through the gap that opened up when MS veered out and when he came back in it got a bit tight.
Twitter is a cesspool and the racing community would rather let you know they're a 9th generation employee, so ignore all the bad parts of the sport. Racing twitter deserves no credence.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
User avatar
War Admiral
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:29 am
Location: The Midwest

Sat May 04, 2019 8:08 pm

CoronadosQuest wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:44 pm
In the end, I am just glad that nobody was injured whether it have been War of Will falling from MoS crossing into his path or War of Will cutting the crap out of Maximum Security's legs with his hooves. It is very lucky that War of Will's legs didn't connect with Maximum Security's according to the slow mo!

Close up, slow mo: https://twitter.com/i/status/1124818251010019328
Thanks for posting the slo mo close up. That was close. We are fortunate that this didn’t result in disaster for several horses and riders.
Government is not the solution to the problem. Government is the problem. Ronald Reagan.
Somnambulist
Posts: 7687
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:59 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:14 pm

sweettalk wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm
it's ended my enjoyment. last year's TC was all tin foil hats, this year opened up with nearly 2 dozen dead horses that santa anita wasn't real sharp about handling, the sales vet records being questioned (more than usual and some ugly allegations coming out), now this? horse racing is supposed to be fun, and so far it hasn't been, anymore. inconsistency in the DQs is what makes this one so hard to handle (i had no money on the race, it's not a money/sentiment thing) - we've seen worse on equally large stages that were swept under the rug (i'm a pro-bayern DQ, had no money there either, also the 98 belmont was pretty iffy). unfortunately, i'm coming up empty on enthusiasm for the sport.

this result isn't the only reason i think i'm tapping out, not at all, it's just a last straw kind of thing.
I can understand this. I think you should take some time to think on this.

I went to the Wood Memorial and literally left in tears because of the amount of disgusting men undressing me with their eyes at every moment. I stuck it out and felt like I was giving up on racing by leaving, but I just couldn't. On the heels of the all the SA bullshit I felt ready to be done. But no one makes good decisions made and unhappy. Passions ebb and flow with the distractions for life. For my boyfriend to get off a weekend date requires basically 5 months of fore-planning and when I said I didn't even want to go to the Belmont he told me to enjoy the sport when we still have it. It really resonated with me.

Of course our enthusiasm changes over time -- we change over time, too. I think some time away with some introspection is always best. If anything it provides some breathing space.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
User avatar
CoronadosQuest
Posts: 1592
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:44 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:15 pm

I didn't realize that Country House isn't even a full three years old yet. He was born May 8th!
stark
Posts: 4977
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 04, 2019 8:16 pm

I still can't figure out why Flavien Prat was the jockey to claim a foul?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
User avatar
Big Ten
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:35 am

Sat May 04, 2019 8:16 pm

I'm done with horse racing.

Second time I got robbed from these "officials" this year. I had money on the Saints over the Rams and they didn't call pass interference. But in a race where Max didn't interfere with a 65-1 longshot, here they did.

This result pretty much is telling me never to bet on sports anymore. They're all rigged for their pockets. It's all really about politics and fattening their own pockets. All sports to me is as real as the WWE.
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
User avatar
CoronadosQuest
Posts: 1592
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:44 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:18 pm

stark wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:16 pm
I still can't figure out why Flavien Prat was the jockey to claim a foul?
Did NBC even talk to Casse or Tyler? I would have loved to know their thoughts on this whole ordeal.
stark
Posts: 4977
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 04, 2019 8:19 pm

stark wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:58 pm
With Shug and Mott combining for a $3,000 exacta for each $2 invested, there's got to be some happy campers out there somewhere.
Image
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Post Reply