Ea

Somnambulist

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:19 pm

halo wrote:I dont think theres zero dispute. Ive seen more horses fatally injured in paddocks and in barns, than I have on race tracks. (of horses that Ive personally been involved with). How do we know 8-12 horses DONT die every day due to paddock accidents? 8-12 out of how many? 100? 1000? Really no way to determine that statistic.
I agree with the underlying point. Horses are always going to find ways to kill and injure themselves.

As for the rest of this discussion, I had no idea there were so many horse psychologists out there. I can see many scenarios where a horse is not happy racing and living in a boxed stall for 23 hours a day, and would probably benefit from more paddock time and maybe a change in career entirely. I imagine some thrive on it. People probably really shouldn't assume anything one way or the other without knowing the horse, and having more experience with than then just looking or petting them.
thinair
Posts: 1816
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:25 pm

Somnambulist wrote:People probably really shouldn't assume anything one way or the other without knowing the horse, and having more experience with than then just looking or petting them.
...or seeing their name for the first time and coming on message boards and lecturing people.
mimi6920
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:39 pm

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:43 pm

I think it is fair to point out that this horse was claimed so in a few months when he is not competitive at the bottom level or he is injured, what happens then? His new owners will have made little money from him and they are likely just hanging on at the bottom level so will they have the moral and fiscal resources to care for the horse or will they drop him lower and hope someone else claims them so be becomes someone else's problem?

These are legitimate questions and I think Ridan was expressing concern that with claimers people don't have the resources or emotional investment to take care of a horse that may be approaching retirement. I never worry about horses like Evening Attire because he had people to look after him. Ea may not be so lucky.
horsefan
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:18 am

Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:00 pm

Ea is by Dynaformer and perhaps Three Chimneys will be involved to help him find a home.
WarBiscuit
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:40 pm
Location: Mount Clemens, MI / Hawks Nest, WV

Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:15 pm

thinair wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:People probably really shouldn't assume anything one way or the other without knowing the horse, and having more experience with than then just looking or petting them.
...or seeing their name for the first time and coming on message boards and lecturing people.
I've got my tri-focals on, and I really can't see where Ridan was lecturing anybody in that initial post. Whether warranted or not, this
person was simply expressing concern for EA, and as you pointed out in a subsequent post, people have and are entitled to voice their
opinions and thoughts here - and that is precisely what happened. Personally, I thought Ridans comment was about as benign as
they come, and some of the comments are a little suprising. Just a humble opinion.

Absolutely no disrespect is meant to you here, Thinair - or to anyone else who posted in this thread. I enjoy the knowledge and
opinions of everyone here - however, it becomes unfortunate when the banter sometimes turns nasty for not much of a good reason.

WarBiscuit
"One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent." H.L. Mencken
Lord Helpus
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:03 pm

Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:02 pm

There seems to be a lot of BS flying around on this thread.

All I can give you is my 50 years involved in horses, both sport horses and race horses.

An old horse who was (faily recently from what I can tell) stakes quality, and now has been claimed 2x in the last 6 months(?). Once for $12,500 and then dropped down to $5000, is not a sound and happy horse. He is a horse whose years of racing are catching up to him and deserves to be (while he still has the possibility of a second career as a riding horse) retired from the track. --

How many posters on this thread have followed old warriors and claimed them when they were 1 or 2 races away from being of no use to anyone. Or, belatedly bemoaned the fact that an old warrior has no future? Fields are full of such horses. Retirement centers do not have room to accommodate the thousand of horses who have been used up and spit out by the racing commumity. Too large of a number have only a last van ride ahead of them up to Canada or down to Mexico. Who else wants them? Who else has room for them?

I have room for 3 right now. All aged geldings that had very little future in front of them (16, 19 and 23). And I have found soft places to land for several others. But I cannot save them all, no one can. The best that can be hoped for is to let them move on to a second career while they still have 4 legs to stand on an caring people who are willing to give them a chance.

As for paddock accidents -- I know of no studies which have compared the % of breakdowns which require euthanization vs. the % of retired TB's who have had such tragic accidents in a field, that they have to be put down. If there are such studies, I would be interested in hearing about them.

If you have walked many miles in the shoes of those who try to rescue old warriors, only to find out that they are 1 race too late -- it is like being in a rescue group who only finds dogs when they have had their legs broken, their mouths tied shit with wire and tied to a fence with a metal chain. Yes, 2 such dogs have been found in Portland, Or in the last week.

It breaks you heart and crushes your spirit -- to think that, had some caring person been allowed to intervene when the animals were healthy and not in pain, the animal would have had a chance at health and happiness for the rest of his life.
Catalina
Posts: 3693
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:08 pm
Location: South Texas

Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:07 pm

That. Well put, Lord Helpus.
User avatar
Life At Zen
Posts: 1664
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:52 pm

Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:57 pm

I am mostly staying out of this debate but I wanted to just say this:

Racing does the most after-care for OTTB's than any other equine discipline does for their athletes. They are the most involved. The most caring.

The only way to know if this horse is racing sound and heathy is to have him vetted. We'll probably never know.
Once upon a time there was a horse named Kelso.
But only once. ~Joe Hirsch
Somnambulist

Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:10 pm

Life At Zen wrote:I am mostly staying out of this debate but I wanted to just say this:

Racing does the most after-care for OTTB's than any other equine discipline does for their athletes. They are the most involved. The most caring.

The only way to know if this horse is racing sound and heathy is to have him vetted. We'll probably never know.
How does it feel to say in 3 lines what this thread has been trying to do in 3 pages?
User avatar
Oldowan
Posts: 303
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:29 pm

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:30 pm

Plenty of horses shouldn't be on the track when they are two or three. I think we miss something by declaring every horse over a certain age "abused" if it is still racing, and we miss a lot of horses who could actually use a different career but aren't eight or nine and don't get the sympathy threads.
Lord Helpus
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:03 pm

Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:22 pm

This is just one group that is trying to help the horses. Their site says it all better than I can. These are the people who give their time and expertise and hearts doing what you naysayers say doesn't need to be done.

http://www.beyondtherosesequine.org/
sweettalk
Posts: 2167
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:20 pm

Lord Helpus wrote:This is just one group that is trying to help the horses. Their site says it all better than I can. These are the people who give their time and expertise and hearts doing what you naysayers say doesn't need to be done.

http://www.beyondtherosesequine.org/
we NEVER said it doesnt need to be done. EVER. we are saying that not every single horse running for a low tag is looking at a dog food future, which is the truth.
User avatar
serenassong
Posts: 4696
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:36 pm
Location: Connecticut

Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:01 am

Been watching EA for a long time- and to see him drop down like this is an concern. Happy that he won, so he could get his pic taken again.

He's one of those horses who will lay everything on the line and will run thru whatever ails him, and bad things have happened to others like that.

If he is happy and healthy, so be it, but I still pause when I see something like this.
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"- Mythbusters
"Oh, What fresh Hell is this?!"- Sheldon Cooper(quoted from Dorothy Parker)- Big Bang Theory
"Sometimes I think he's the King of Stupid" - Old Man- Pawn Stars
Izvestia
Posts: 4088
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am

Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:26 pm

Quite simply, look at the barn he is coming from.
second_glance
Posts: 2524
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:42 am

Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:23 pm

Izvestia wrote:Quite simply, look at the barn he is coming from.
Yep. Shipping him to Laurel and dropping him in for 5 is, to me, a warning flag. Maybe yellow, rather than red.
second_glance
Posts: 2524
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:42 am

Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:28 pm

Surely the epitome of horse as track rat is Lava Man?
Izvestia
Posts: 4088
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am

Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:58 pm

I'm not interested in the fighting going on in the six previous pages about this horse.
I just know that when I look at the barn he came from, and I look at that horse's race record, it fits the pattern of that barn.
Definitely a "yellow" flag.
User avatar
CoronadosQuest
Posts: 1677
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:44 pm

Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:23 am

What about the trainer who claimed him? Does anybody know of his reputation since he now owns the horse? Does anybody who regulars at Laurel know him? Maybe they could voice the concern of some people because they are fans of Ea. I would think that that had already been due to the uproar over this situation but I just wanted to make sure.
User avatar
Northport
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: probably near the food

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:23 am

Sorry to sound ignorant, but is drawing away sketchy or something? I have only heard about them in relation to saginaw :?
weeeeeeeee
Izvestia
Posts: 4088
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am

Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:28 am

The horse was running at Saratoga 3 months ago for $25,000. He was dumped for $5,000 at Laurel. And I wasn't talking about the owners.

He probably has some sort of physical issue. BUT, he did win, which means he still is competitive. My experience with old warriors like him is that if they want to run, they will. If they don't want to, they won't. If they can't run, they won't (or they will hurt themselves trying). If they can run, they will.

But like someone said, Thoroughbreds have more rescue groups than any other breed, and I am sure he is on someone's radar.
Post Reply