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Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:17 am
by MySaladDays
Apollo wrote:As soon as I saw him I wanted to cancel my bet.
As soon as I read your post, I wanted to take a shower.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:03 am
by Ballerina
The Apollo curse lives. :-)

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:05 am
by FlyToTheStars
A walk up starting line for post-time should be better than using auxiliary gate for fields larger than 14 horses. it seems that the gap causes issues lately at the Derby. Mendelssohn was mugged badly- and Magnum Moon should have not run if he was known to drift like he did that day. Luckily the runners affected by the colt didn't get injuries.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:09 am
by Turul
Apollo wrote: European racing is incomparably boring with a cotillion until a few hundred meters out and then a dash to the wire. I can't believe the United States is stupid enough to acknowledge that type of racing with several scattered on each card.
Correct.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:37 am
by stark
I didn't realize that AOB had zero intentions of running in the Preakness if he would've won the Derby.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:47 am
by Somnambulist
My boyfriend and I have travelled around a lot. I REALLY can understand in this thread when people compliment us on being un-American Americans.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:08 am
by Treve
FlyToTheStars wrote:A walk up starting line for post-time should be better than using auxiliary gate for fields larger than 14 horses. it seems that the gap causes issues lately at the Derby. Mendelssohn was mugged badly- and Magnum Moon should have not run if he was known to drift like he did that day. Luckily the runners affected by the colt didn't get injuries.
I think the weather really plays a huge part in this. Track was wet last year too and Classic Empire was hit so hard he came out of the race with his eye swollen shut, multiple cuts and bruising/bumps. I looked back to 2016 and something similar happened to Mohaymen, he was squished coming out of gate 14 but it wasn't nearly as violent as brutal as what CE and Mendy experienced. In 2015 it didn't happen since the horse in gate 14 took back immediately for a position at the end of the field. 2014 and 2013, mysteriously it didn't happen since... the horses ran straight. Wait, they can do that!? If not a walk up starting line, at least some sort of rule that the horses need to run straight for an x number of yards before cutting in to the inside. One of these days a very ugly accident'll happen, a horse will go down or someone is going to get badly injured, if this trend continues.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:32 pm
by Curtis
MySaladDays wrote:If we hold them all to the same standard, there were 16 AMERICAN dirt horse trainers w/horses in this race, who also didn't finish ITM and their horses didn't get body slammed, so why is AOB under any pressure to "explain" or "admit" to anything doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.
I understand your point but it was actually 12 since the trainers of Vino Rosso, Noble Indy, Magnum Moon and Solomini had horses who finished in the money.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:50 pm
by Curtis
Somnambulist wrote:My boyfriend and I have travelled around a lot. I REALLY can understand in this thread when people compliment us on being un-American Americans.
My wife and I went on a Mediterranean cruise and spent a week in Italy late last summer. Inevitably a tour guide would bring up the current US chief executive and then look chagrined. My wife and I would just shrug and say we’re not fans either.

To me not thinking AOB will ever win a KY Derby is any different than thinking Chad Brown won’t ever win an Arc. I don’t think the racing in either jurisdiction is inherently better, just very different. I think AOB wants to win the Derby on his own terms, just like Darley wanted to back in the ‘90’s. No, the draw, trip and track didn’t help his colt but ultimately AOB may want to compromise a little more to win the race but ultimately it probably would seem a lot more satisfying to him to say he did it his way than to do it in a more hybrid method.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:32 pm
by Treve
Curtis I don't think Som had any of your posts in mind when she said that. One thing to have an opinion, another to be haughty about it.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:38 pm
by Somnambulist
Treve wrote:Curtis I don't think Som had any of your posts in mind when she said that. One thing to have an opinion, another to be haughty about it.
No, definitely not. It really has nothing to do with Trump, either, regardless of my own feelings about him. I'm in driving distance to the great places of Toronto and Montreal and the snob-level the rest of the world thinks Americans display, by and large, is both impressive and pervasive regardless of what our government is doing.

European racing might not be someone's particular cup of tea but there is no reason to slam something with centuries behind it. There is life beyond how we do it here, although you'd never know by the way some people have gone about it. The ragging on Mendelssohn in the Twitter-verse is epic even for Twitter.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:03 pm
by Sparrow Castle
Yep, in places I travel I can pull off a good Canadian accent if it makes the situation more comfortable, lol.
And I love European-style racing.
Still playing catch-up so apologies if these pictures have been posted. Their expressions say it all.

carmelamigliore @Melabella59
23h23 hours ago
Writing from the comfort of never having to fear @RichardMigliore getting hurt in a race again, one doesn’t lose the memory of the fear of a split second happening that changes a life forever. Ryan Moore and Mendelssohn provide a stunning example of the grit a jockey/TB posses.
Image

Alex Evers @A_Evers
1d1 day ago
Mendelssohn and Ryan Moore had a rough trip... two years in a row the 14 post got compromised by the auxiliary gate horses coming over... I can’t wait to see him come for @BreedersCup #kyderby
Image

A muddy Ryan Moore after the Derby... I hope he gets on Saxon Warrior and can complete the English Triple Crown. Love the son of Deep Impacts chances
Image

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:09 pm
by Spahny
It was the Pletcher nut job Magnum Moon that wasn't ready for prime time. Who's fault is that?

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:15 pm
by Curtis
Somnambulist wrote:
Treve wrote:Curtis I don't think Som had any of your posts in mind when she said that. One thing to have an opinion, another to be haughty about it.
No, definitely not. It really has nothing to do with Trump, either, regardless of my own feelings about him. I'm in driving distance to the great places of Toronto and Montreal and the snob-level the rest of the world thinks Americans display, by and large, is both impressive and pervasive regardless of what our government is doing.

European racing might not be someone's particular cup of tea but there is no reason to slam something with centuries behind it. There is life beyond how we do it here, although you'd never know by the way some people have gone about it. The ragging on Mendelssohn in the Twitter-verse is epic even for Twitter.
I never thought for a second that she did. I also am driving distance from Canada and have been to both Vancouver and Victoria B.C. and have never experienced a hint of anti-American attitude, in fact the person presiding in the White House has never come up. Europeans, at least in Spain and Italy were more guarded and some actually asked us our leanings so they could feel free to comment. I don't go out of my way to be political, but my wife and I mentioning that we are, I'll say, disconnected to the current regime would curtail any anxiety and then we would move on to the topic at hand. We were in Catalonia during a revolution, those folks know how to party! I also am not demeaning European racing, it's just very different. I think to win the KY Derby a trainer has to train a horse in a certain, short-sighted manner. Screws need to be tightened and not by hand--you need to bring out the hydraulics--and all the while, keep the horse happy. The horse isn't going to last long unless a fortuitous, fairly minor problem like what happened to Chrome comes up. That's the gamble. If you can win the race and then get another G1 out of them, preferably the Preakness, you're set. If not, you need to watch the subsequent races through your hands like TAP and Co. are presently doing with Always Dreaming. I don't think training a horse like that is what O'Brien is all about, at least not now. Gun Runner was an outlier as I really think they did go for the win in the Derby and when they didn't get it, they regrouped and went with a more conservative approach, i.e. skipping the Preakness, a race for which he seemed to fit perfectly, to create a natural progression and they were rewarded for it.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:48 pm
by Starine
*shrug* I enjoy European racing.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:14 pm
by Sparrow Castle
Curtis wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:
Treve wrote:Curtis I don't think Som had any of your posts in mind when she said that. One thing to have an opinion, another to be haughty about it.
No, definitely not. It really has nothing to do with Trump, either, regardless of my own feelings about him. I'm in driving distance to the great places of Toronto and Montreal and the snob-level the rest of the world thinks Americans display, by and large, is both impressive and pervasive regardless of what our government is doing.

European racing might not be someone's particular cup of tea but there is no reason to slam something with centuries behind it. There is life beyond how we do it here, although you'd never know by the way some people have gone about it. The ragging on Mendelssohn in the Twitter-verse is epic even for Twitter.
I never thought for a second that she did. I also am driving distance from Canada and have been to both Vancouver and Victoria B.C. and have never experienced a hint of anti-American attitude, in fact the person presiding in the White House has never come up. Europeans, at least in Spain and Italy were more guarded and some actually asked us our leanings so they could feel free to comment. I don't go out of my way to be political, but my wife and I mentioning that we are, I'll say, disconnected to the current regime would curtail any anxiety and then we would move on to the topic at hand. We were in Catalonia during a revolution, those folks know how to party! I also am not demeaning European racing, it's just very different. I think to win the KY Derby a trainer has to train a horse in a certain, short-sighted manner. Screws need to be tightened and not by hand--you need to bring out the hydraulics--and all the while, keep the horse happy. The horse isn't going to last long unless a fortuitous, fairly minor problem like what happened to Chrome comes up. That's the gamble. If you can win the race and then get another G1 out of them, preferably the Preakness, you're set. If not, you need to watch the subsequent races through your hands like TAP and Co. are presently doing with Always Dreaming. I don't think training a horse like that is what O'Brien is all about, at least not now. Gun Runner was an outlier as I really think they did go for the win in the Derby and when they didn't get it, they regrouped and went with a more conservative approach, i.e. skipping the Preakness, a race for which he seemed to fit perfectly, to create a natural progression and they were rewarded for it.
I've not experienced an anti-American attitude in Canada either, except from my Canadian relatives who think it's great sport. But the subject of who's in the White House does come up, in sympathetic ways. I was responding to world travel in the pre-Trump years like what Som mentioned. Been everywhere from Asia to Europe to wherever, most don't have good impressions of us here in the States. The only time it really got dicey was when we were in North Vietnam in the mid-90s, which is somewhat understandable. The moniker of The Ugly American, even apart from the book, was well-deserved at times. Sometimes even I was embarrassed by the behavior of my compatriots.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:38 am
by barbaro111
Spahny wrote:It was the Pletcher nut job Magnum Moon that wasn't ready for prime time. Who's fault is that?

I so agree with that and not many, well, not any, except you - have the guts to say it; that horse did not belong in the Derby: Pletcher knew
he was a drifter ( though he tried to excuse it before the Derby). he was a danger to himself and others.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:40 am
by barbaro111
Curtis wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:
Treve wrote:Curtis I don't think Som had any of your posts in mind when she said that. One thing to have an opinion, another to be haughty about it.
No, definitely not. It really has nothing to do with Trump, either, regardless of my own feelings about him. I'm in driving distance to the great places of Toronto and Montreal and the snob-level the rest of the world thinks Americans display, by and large, is both impressive and pervasive regardless of what our government is doing.

European racing might not be someone's particular cup of tea but there is no reason to slam something with centuries behind it. There is life beyond how we do it here, although you'd never know by the way some people have gone about it. The ragging on Mendelssohn in the Twitter-verse is epic even for Twitter.
I never thought for a second that she did. I also am driving distance from Canada and have been to both Vancouver and Victoria B.C. and have never experienced a hint of anti-American attitude, in fact the person presiding in the White House has never come up. Europeans, at least in Spain and Italy were more guarded and some actually asked us our leanings so they could feel free to comment. I don't go out of my way to be political, but my wife and I mentioning that we are, I'll say, disconnected to the current regime would curtail any anxiety and then we would move on to the topic at hand. We were in Catalonia during a revolution, those folks know how to party! I also am not demeaning European racing, it's just very different. I think to win the KY Derby a trainer has to train a horse in a certain, short-sighted manner. Screws need to be tightened and not by hand--you need to bring out the hydraulics--and all the while, keep the horse happy. The horse isn't going to last long unless a fortuitous, fairly minor problem like what happened to Chrome comes up. That's the gamble. If you can win the race and then get another G1 out of them, preferably the Preakness, you're set. If not, you need to watch the subsequent races through your hands like TAP and Co. are presently doing with Always Dreaming. I don't think training a horse like that is what O'Brien is all about, at least not now. Gun Runner was an outlier as I really think they did go for the win in the Derby and when they didn't get it, they regrouped and went with a more conservative approach, i.e. skipping the Preakness, a race for which he seemed to fit perfectly, to create a natural progression and they were rewarded for it.

I wish i could move to Canada-- i despise living in a country in which Trump is president: he is an embarassment to the United States.

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:14 am
by stark
With regards to the Breeders Cup this year where 11 will be entering the starting gate, making some normal assumptions that everybody progresses throughout the year, Justify will be there as will some older horses, what do you suppose you'll do with Mendelssohn?

A) Cheering him on for an emotional victory.
B) Betting against him to hit the board.
C) Including him underneath on tri's and supers.
D) Betting with both fists on the win end if he's 6/1 or higher.

Ouigaboard

Re: Mendelssohn

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 12:22 pm
by Personal Ensign
Can you imagine if Magnum Moon had ended up in the 1 hole :roll: that would have been even worse.
FlyToTheStars wrote:A walk up starting line for post-time should be better than using auxiliary gate for fields larger than 14 horses. it seems that the gap causes issues lately at the Derby. Mendelssohn was mugged badly- and Magnum Moon should have not run if he was known to drift like he did that day. Luckily the runners affected by the colt didn't get injuries.