American Pharoah

Macaroni
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Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 am

Admin wrote:
gravano wrote:Please, if AP wins the Triple Crown he will win HOY.

Well, maybe we'll see. Maybe we won't. But an awful lot of people will have to be won over in the Belmont. The lack of excitement and joy is something I've not seen for any other horse going for the TC.
I truly think you're just not looking in the right places. I've seen TONS of love and support for AP and his TC bid. Whether on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. I have seen an outpouring of love and support for this horse from horse racing buffs and just your casual TC-races viewer and everyone in between. I don't think he's lacking "excitement and joy" as much as you seem to think.

If TC winners nabbed HOY in years when there hadn't been a drought, the horse that breaks a 37+ year drought is going to get it.
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War Admiral
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Fri May 22, 2015 10:09 am

If AP wins the Triple Crown he will be HOY. I don't see any possible way for another horse to win should we have out first TC winner in nearly 40 years.
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CoronadosQuest
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Fri May 22, 2015 10:32 am

Image

AP from yesterday at CD

Churchill Downs ‏@ChurchillDowns May 21

#KyDerby winner, #TripleCrown hope American Pharoah jogged in first post-@PreaknessStakes trip to track (R. Palmer)

Image


Anne Eberhardt Keogh ‏@BH_AEberhardt May 21

#AmericanPharoah back @ChurchillDowns prepping for @BelmontStakes @KentuckyDerby @PreaknessStakes ReedPalmerPhotos
Macaroni
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Fri May 22, 2015 1:14 pm

He looks awesome. I like this horse so, so much.

AP galloped a mile this morning. More photos here:

https://twitter.com/ChurchillDowns/stat ... 1877991425
EquineAnne
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Fri May 22, 2015 11:31 pm

Macaroni wrote:He looks awesome. I like this horse so, so much.

AP galloped a mile this morning. More photos here:

https://twitter.com/ChurchillDowns/stat ... 1877991425
Do you think galloping at CD will prepare him for the Belmont? I know they said CD was tiring for the KD, what about big sandy? Isn't that tiring?
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CoronadosQuest
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Fri May 22, 2015 11:33 pm

Didn't seem to hurt Point Given when he trained at CD for the Belmont.
EquineAnne
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Sat May 23, 2015 12:25 am

CoronadosQuest wrote:Didn't seem to hurt Point Given when he trained at CD for the Belmont.
Great, thanks! I know, his owner sucks but I still want to see him do it. We can hate Zayat the next day. If you think about it, it's AP that will go down in history. Not the chubby Egyptian man.
Apollo
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Sat May 23, 2015 2:06 am

If a horse wins the Triple Crown he can loop the starting gate nonstop in the rest of his remaining races and still be Horse of the Year. Anyone who doubts that might as well picket the Hollywood Park area for the rest of his life, demanding the track be rebuilt.

There was some talk that Seattle Slew deserved the nod in 1978. Ridiculous. It didn't matter which one proved superior in two fall races. Affirmed should have won that honor far more lopsided than the actual voting.
tcw
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Sat May 23, 2015 11:50 am

Speaking of Seattle Slew, perhaps he and Count Fleet are the best examples of horses that have won the TC and did little to nothing afterward and yet were still awarded HOY. After winning the Belmont and TC, Count Fleet was retired due to injury having raced just 5 times in '43, yet was awarded the HOY. Seattle Slew, after winning the Belmont and TC, ran just once more in '77 finishing a distant 4th in the Swaps Stakes, yet he was also awarded HOY. If American Pharoah is able to get it done in the Belmont, especially considering it's been some 37 years since a horse has accomplished it, awarding him HOY will be nothing more than a formality.

In much the same way, when Miguel Cabrera accomplished Major League Baseball's Triple Crown in 2012, the first time it had been done in 45 years since 1967, was it any surprise that he was named MVP?
Admin
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Sat May 23, 2015 3:06 pm

I used to think that a horse who wins the TC automatically would win HOY. I'm not so sure of that. My finger in the wind tells me this could be a very unpopular TC winner and that voters will make another choice if they're given one. The problem is who would give them one with Shared Belief being out.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
terpsichorist
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Sat May 23, 2015 3:21 pm

tcw wrote:Speaking of Seattle Slew, perhaps he and Count Fleet are the best examples of horses that have won the TC and did little to nothing afterward and yet were still awarded HOY. After winning the Belmont and TC, Count Fleet was retired due to injury having raced just 5 times in '43, yet was awarded the HOY. Seattle Slew, after winning the Belmont and TC, ran just once more in '77 finishing a distant 4th in the Swaps Stakes, yet he was also awarded HOY. If American Pharoah is able to get it done in the Belmont, especially considering it's been some 37 years since a horse has accomplished it, awarding him HOY will be nothing more than a formality.

In much the same way, when Miguel Cabrera accomplished Major League Baseball's Triple Crown in 2012, the first time it had been done in 45 years since 1967, was it any surprise that he was named MVP?

Slew was unbeaten going into the TC and deserved HOY in 77 . Who should have gotten the award in 77 ?
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Diver52
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Sat May 23, 2015 3:35 pm

With Chrome in England, SB on the shelf, and Bayern in questionable form, I don't see anyone likely to put together a year strong enough to overcome a TC winner.
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Kay16
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Sat May 23, 2015 7:17 pm

Admin wrote:I used to think that a horse who wins the TC automatically would win HOY. I'm not so sure of that. My finger in the wind tells me this could be a very unpopular TC winner and that voters will make another choice if they're given one. The problem is who would give them one with Shared Belief being out.
Very unpopular? You must only be focusing on the negativity. He's quite popular especially considering the dislike of Zayat by many. And the voters won't care about the some people that aren't fans. No TC winner since 1978, whoever does it next will be the HOTY especially a horse that was very good before the TC races. There are no Saint Liams or Ghostzappers this year to take the award away even if he only comes out with 2 of 3. Unless someone really puts in a string of good big races AP even without a win at Belmont in 2 weeks will be a serious contender for HOTY.
Admin
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Sat May 23, 2015 8:29 pm

Kay16 wrote:
Admin wrote:I used to think that a horse who wins the TC automatically would win HOY. I'm not so sure of that. My finger in the wind tells me this could be a very unpopular TC winner and that voters will make another choice if they're given one. The problem is who would give them one with Shared Belief being out.
Very unpopular? You must only be focusing on the negativity. He's quite popular especially considering the dislike of Zayat by many. And the voters won't care about the some people that aren't fans. No TC winner since 1978, whoever does it next will be the HOTY especially a horse that was very good before the TC races. There are no Saint Liams or Ghostzappers this year to take the award away even if he only comes out with 2 of 3. Unless someone really puts in a string of good big races AP even without a win at Belmont in 2 weeks will be a serious contender for HOTY.
Didn't I just say that "the problem is who would give them one with Shared Belief being out"? So why repeat what I said while supposedly arguing different?

And of course I'm focusing on the negativity. Negativity this heavy has never existed with a horse going for the TC. And you're wrong that people don't care about the connections of a horse, particularly the voters, because many recognize that it's the people who are rewarded -- the horse couldn't possibly care less. When given two or more legitimate choices, you bet other factors besides the two horses -- because they're both legitimate choices -- come into play.

And there's no reason to argue this. We'll see or we won't. I'm not guaranteeing that the vote is going against a TC winner -- just stating the possibility. You on the other hand are guaranteeing that you're right, and frankly, you can't guarantee it.

So I got your point that you think I'm wrong. But you only think I am. We'll see or we won't. I'm guessing the odds are against both a TC happening and another horse sweeping all the Fall big races and demolishing the TC winner a time or two.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
tcw
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Sat May 23, 2015 8:58 pm

terpsichorist wrote:
tcw wrote:Speaking of Seattle Slew, perhaps he and Count Fleet are the best examples of horses that have won the TC and did little to nothing afterward and yet were still awarded HOY. After winning the Belmont and TC, Count Fleet was retired due to injury having raced just 5 times in '43, yet was awarded the HOY. Seattle Slew, after winning the Belmont and TC, ran just once more in '77 finishing a distant 4th in the Swaps Stakes, yet he was also awarded HOY. If American Pharoah is able to get it done in the Belmont, especially considering it's been some 37 years since a horse has accomplished it, awarding him HOY will be nothing more than a formality.

In much the same way, when Miguel Cabrera accomplished Major League Baseball's Triple Crown in 2012, the first time it had been done in 45 years since 1967, was it any surprise that he was named MVP?

Slew was unbeaten going into the TC and deserved HOY in 77 . Who should have gotten the award in 77 ?
Slew, of course, and that's my point. Both Seattle Slew and Count Fleet did little to nothing the remainder of their respective 3yo seasons (due to physical issues w/CF being retired thereafter), and yet both were awarded HOY just as they should have been given how difficult a feat it is to accomplish.
tcw
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Sat May 23, 2015 9:38 pm

I used to think that a horse who wins the TC automatically would win HOY. I'm not so sure of that. My finger in the wind tells me this could be a very unpopular TC winner and that voters will make another choice if they're given one. The problem is who would give them one with Shared Belief being out.
Perhaps it's more your hope than anything else for whatever reason, but if HOY is denigrated to basically a "popularity contest" and a horse is/isn't awarded HOY based on popularity, then there is something seriously wrong with the selection process. But I dare say that if AP is able to get it done after a 37 year drought, voters are going to be VERY hard-pressed to vote for any other based on what really matters, and that's "accomplishment". Also, keep in mind the media blitz that will likely occur afterward if he gets it done... who knows, he may even be invited to ring the opening bell on Wall Street or appear on one of the late night shows. But quite frankly, this discussion is a waste of time because if he does accomplish this extremely difficult feat which no other horse has been able to do in the past 37 years, being awarded HOY will be nothing more than a formality.
Admin
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Sat May 23, 2015 9:42 pm

tcw wrote:
I used to think that a horse who wins the TC automatically would win HOY. I'm not so sure of that. My finger in the wind tells me this could be a very unpopular TC winner and that voters will make another choice if they're given one. The problem is who would give them one with Shared Belief being out.
Perhaps it's more your hope than anything else for whatever reason, but if HOY is denigrated to basically a "popularity contest" and a horse is/isn't awarded HOY based on popularity, then there is something seriously wrong with the selection process. But I dare say that if AP is able to get it done after a 37 year drought, voters are going to be VERY hard-pressed to vote for any other based on what really matters, and that's "accomplishment". Also, keep in mind the media blitz that will likely occur afterward if he gets it done... who knows, he may even be invited to ring the opening bell on Wall Street or appear on one of the late night shows. But quite frankly, this discussion is a waste of time because if he does accomplish this extremely difficult feat which no other horse has been able to do in the past 37 years, being awarded HOY will be nothing more than a formality.
We'll see. Or not.

Out of curiosity, how many horses have won all 3 of these races: Woodward, JCGC, and BCC?
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
swale1984
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Sat May 23, 2015 10:24 pm

What could be interesting is if AP wins the Triple Crown, while California Chrome wins at Ascot, comes back, wins the Arlington Million, and then beats AP in the BCC. If all of those things happen, who has the edge?
Horsebagger
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Sat May 23, 2015 11:31 pm

swale1984 wrote:What could be interesting is if AP wins the Triple Crown, while California Chrome wins at Ascot, comes back, wins the Arlington Million, and then beats AP in the BCC. If all of those things happen, who has the edge?
Please stop. A turf horse isn't beating a Triple Crown winner for HOY. Let's start with hoping that our Kentucky Derby winner from 2014 doesn't get humiliated at Ascot, and go from there.
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