Justify

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Miss Woodford
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Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:47 pm

Starine wrote:
Treve wrote: Too late I already saw those comments all over.
If he retires now, will he be the only TC winner not to face olders?

I don't think Count Fleet ever ran again after the Belmont.
Hurt his ankle at the start of the race and still won by 25 lengths, but was too lame to walk out of his stall the next day. He was kept at Belmont the rest of the season in hopes that he could return to training but developed a splint that kept him out the full year. He was actually set to race again as a 4yo but kept reinjuring himself.

Count Fleet, despite being a trainwreck on hooves (he kicked himself in a workout in March, hurt his left foreleg in his first start of the year, tore off part of his left hind hoof in the Wood, and had a slight injury to his left foreleg in the Derby, the same leg that would be reinjured in the Belmont), had 16 wins in 21 career starts. Justify has..6. Justify certainly has something left to prove.
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Curtis
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:11 am

Miss Woodford wrote:
Starine wrote:
Treve wrote: Too late I already saw those comments all over.
If he retires now, will he be the only TC winner not to face olders?

I don't think Count Fleet ever ran again after the Belmont.
Hurt his ankle at the start of the race and still won by 25 lengths, but was too lame to walk out of his stall the next day. He was kept at Belmont the rest of the season in hopes that he could return to training but developed a splint that kept him out the full year. He was actually set to race again as a 4yo but kept reinjuring himself.

Count Fleet, despite being a trainwreck on hooves (he kicked himself in a workout in March, hurt his left foreleg in his first start of the year, tore off part of his left hind hoof in the Wood, and had a slight injury to his left foreleg in the Derby, the same leg that would be reinjured in the Belmont), had 16 wins in 21 career starts. Justify has..6. Justify certainly has something left to prove.
That he can win ten more and lose five?
MySaladDays
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:26 am

Retrospectiv wrote:Knew the "he's lost weight" story from last week was horse puckey.
Baffert had bragged after the Belmont that he'd lost none and was thriving, then after weeks of no plans for a race, suddenly he's light. And now he weighs more again.....
This week it's an ankle.....

Anyone who leaves the sound on when Baffert is talking is wasting their time. :lol:
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Ballerina
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:13 am

Bob Baffert is the P. T. Barnum of horse racing. "There's sucker born every minute." He's a hustler, but I still like him - good trainer.
peeptoad
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:59 am

Which ankle was it that had the lesion they ablated that delayed his debut? Was it the same ankle?
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Kurenai
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:26 am

It's good that they are giving him time off and evaluate him. Filling is usually harmless, but requires quite a bit of rest. I honestly doubt that he will race again.

I just wish they had given him more rest immediately after the TC. I know they didn't do much with him at the track either, but the thing is - in my experience with horses - it's much better to hand walk them than doing nothing and keeping them 23 hours in the stable (which is what happens with Baffert, he's not big on grazing either). The moving around without putting a strain on the limbs helps to get swelling down, transport fluids, keeps a good blow flow etc etc

And yeah, a horse that raced as a 2 yo and was time given off during winter wouldn't have needed a break so badly. Stuff like that usually happens if you ask too much in such a short period of time. Loss of weight, some ouchy feet.

Baffert is a great trainer, one of the best, I am well aware of that. But he could learn a thing or two from - for example - the connection of Winx, who always give her time off and a nice vacation (I know some other trainers in the US do that too).
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Ballerina
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:30 am

Filling, from what I've read, can be a result of inactivity especially in a high functioning horse like Justify. It can also be the result of a deep seated injury or infection diagnosed by hi-tech imaging. It is not career ending or life threatening. I do believe Justify will run again. He just won't be coming to Saratoga. :-(
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Squeaky
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:58 pm

I am baffled at why such a valuable horse does not have a diagnostic work up of X rays and an ultrasound +/- nuclear scan to know exactly what is going on with him. It’s not like money is an issue here.
stark
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:20 pm

Squeaky wrote:I am baffled at why such a valuable horse does not have a diagnostic work up of X rays and an ultrasound +/- nuclear scan to know exactly what is going on with him. It’s not like money is an issue here.
HIPAA compliance.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Treve
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:40 pm

Ballerina wrote:Filling, from what I've read, can be a result of inactivity especially in a high functioning horse like Justify. It can also be the result of a deep seated injury or infection diagnosed by hi-tech imaging. It is not career ending or life threatening. I do believe Justify will run again. He just won't be coming to Saratoga. :-(
This is only true if the filling is there when you are taking the horse out of the stall. This type of swelling or filling will disappear within minutes of warming up the horse. (And why as Kurenai pointed out, it would be far more beneficial for the horses to be out and moving about even just hand grazing throughout the day than being cooped up in a stall) If what they say is accurate, the filling appeared AFTER his work outs which is why it is concerning (can be indicative of a limb that is not 100% and therefore handling the stress of working/being down poorly).
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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honneerider
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:15 pm

Do I understand they are not doing scans/tests immediately?
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Personal Ensign
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:21 pm

Izvestia Justify isn't the only undefeated triple crown winner, Seattle Slew was undefeated as well. Justify is the only undefeated triple crown winner that didn't race as a 2 year old and is the only undefeated triple crown winner still living.
Izvestia wrote:Surprise!!!
Not.

Reasons for this:
1) running the snot out of him from Feb to June, with no 2-year-old campaign foundation.
2) he was always a “little bit” off after the Derby and Preakness... with scratches...
3) he’s valuable as eff.
4) only undefeated Triple Crown winner in the history of NA racing is a great slogan.
5) they don’t make ‘em like they used to, the industry loves these flashy, lightly raced horses.

So, can we move on to the next Big horse?
Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
W. C. Fields



-Formerly LadyWeaver-
Catalina
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:43 pm

stark wrote:
Kurenai wrote:Aaaaand this is why I wanted to see him get some vacation at Winstar. Not talking about the filling, talking about him losing weight. I really don't get why they didn't send him there after the TC.
As I understood it, his trainer said that he was the kind of horse who thrived on training and being competitive, that he was not the kind of horse who would be easy to stop on for R&R then restart the training regimen all over again.
That, I think, comes closest to the truth. Remember Arrogate who they eventually elected not to persevere on because he "lost interest in racing", after a fairly short racing career. No doubt it helps that both Arrogate as well as Justified had a stellar value as a stallions, which could only go down if they started losing.
Last edited by Catalina on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurenai
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:44 pm

Treve wrote:
Ballerina wrote:Filling, from what I've read, can be a result of inactivity especially in a high functioning horse like Justify. It can also be the result of a deep seated injury or infection diagnosed by hi-tech imaging. It is not career ending or life threatening. I do believe Justify will run again. He just won't be coming to Saratoga. :-(
This is only true if the filling is there when you are taking the horse out of the stall. This type of swelling or filling will disappear within minutes of warming up the horse. (And why as Kurenai pointed out, it would be far more beneficial for the horses to be out and moving about even just hand grazing throughout the day than being cooped up in a stall) If what they say is accurate, the filling appeared AFTER his work outs which is why it is concerning (can be indicative of a limb that is not 100% and therefore handling the stress of working/being down poorly).
Thank you Treve :)
BaroqueAgain1
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:46 pm

Maybe Izvestia meant that Justify would be an undefeated TC winner if he retired right now, and never had a defeat on his record?
IIRC, Seattle Slew, who continued to race after the TC, did not retire undefeated.
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Ballerina
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:27 pm

Treve wrote:
Ballerina wrote:Filling, from what I've read, can be a result of inactivity especially in a high functioning horse like Justify. It can also be the result of a deep seated injury or infection diagnosed by hi-tech imaging. It is not career ending or life threatening. I do believe Justify will run again. He just won't be coming to Saratoga. :-(
This is only true if the filling is there when you are taking the horse out of the stall. This type of swelling or filling will disappear within minutes of warming up the horse. (And why as Kurenai pointed out, it would be far more beneficial for the horses to be out and moving about even just hand grazing throughout the day than being cooped up in a stall) If what they say is accurate, the filling appeared AFTER his work outs which is why it is concerning (can be indicative of a limb that is not 100% and therefore handling the stress of working/being down poorly).
I also wrote it could be a result of injury. Jeez!
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Ballerina
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:28 pm

Barnum - I mean Baffert is good at PR

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/43620-justi ... er-baffert
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Ballerina
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:28 pm

Barnum - I mean Baffert is good at PR

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/43620-justi ... er-baffert
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Ballerina
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:37 pm

Oh, and the losing weight bit (in case you skipped over the post I posted). Zoe Cadman reported yesterday that Justify weighed in at 1271 lbs. 2 lbs. more than he weighed before the Belmont. Fast weight loss recovery.

https://twitter.com/zoecadman/status/10 ... 48/video/1
katmandu
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:07 pm

Retrospectiv wrote:
Ballerina wrote:Weighing in at 1271 lbs. this morning - 3 lbs. more than when he ran the Belmont.

https://twitter.com/zoecadman/status/10 ... 48/video/1
Knew the "he's lost weight" story from last week was horse puckey.
Baffert had bragged after the Belmont that he'd lost none and was thriving, then after weeks of no plans for a race, suddenly he's light. And now he weighs more again.....
This week it's an ankle.....
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