The Japan Cup(G1)

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Northport
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Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:30 pm

I mean, Japan seems to mostly breed for middle distance and stayers, horses that will excel from 1 1/4 miles to 2 miles. If they want to win top races like both phases of the Tenno Sho, along with Japan Cup, Arima Kinen, etc. That alone could contribute to a longer and lankier stayer-type.
weeeeeeeee
tachyon
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Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:08 pm

-- Key stallions' average winning distance on the turf:

Sunday Silence(USA) : 1761m

Deep Impact(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1792m
King Kamehameha(JPN) (Kingmanbo) : 1773m
Stay Gold(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1924m
Daiwa Major(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1561m
Heart's Cry(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1862m
Harbinger(GB) (Dansili) : 1901m
Kurofune(USA) (French Deputy) : 1593m
Manhattan Cafe(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1772m
Admire Moon(JPN) (End Sweep) : 1475m
Gold Allure(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1683m
Neo Universe(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1798m
Black Tide(JPN) (Sunday Silence) : 1709m
Rulership(JPN) (King Kamehameha) : 1927m
Kinshasa no Kiseki(AUS) (Fuji Kiseki) : 1379m
Empire Maker(USA) (Unbridled) : 1696m*

*Empire Maker's average winning distance on the dirt in Japan is 1592m.


Does anyone have any idea about how these numbers will be compared to those of major stallions in the US (and in Europe)?
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Treve
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:20 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:The Japanese horses are all so lean, with a greyhound look. But Makahiki takes that to the extreme, with his really deep shoulder/chest tapering up to a wasp waist. :shock:
I know that the Japanese haven't actually created a new breed of TB, but they sure look different. I presume that, along with breeding for a less muscular type, they also employ different training and feeding regimens from what we might see here in the US.
They look as thoroughbreds should look imho, very classic looking and evocative of 18th and 19th century oil paintings of race horses and famous studs or broodies ;) Lean, elegant, athletic.
(Let's not forget TBs used to regularly run 4 mile races sometimes 2 or 3 heats in a day so up to 12 miles, including the horses here in North America, so it makes sense that horses bred for middle/classic and stayer distances would look like the old depictions out there).

You see a similar separation of body types in human sprinters vs marathoners and distance runners. TBs in general have a mixture of slow twitch and fast twitch muscle fibre genes. Quarter Horses have fast twitch and Arabians have slow twitch. Selective breeding in TBs could impact the amount from one line/individual to the next. And of course training is a factor. Maybe also the way the (legal) drug use impacts the metabolism.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:30 pm

How good is Ryan Moore? Probably good enough that his mere presence in the saddle will drop Idaho's odds. ;) :P
https://www.racingpost.com/news/fans-in ... mer/309836
lurkey mclurker
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Wow, I didn't know he made it to SIX - when I went to bed he was four-for-four which was pretty incredible by itself. :o
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:46 am

The weather looks nice. That's good. When I watched Kitasan Black win the Tenno Sho Autumn (I think?), the horses looked like they were running through a marsh in the middle of the Monsoon. :P
lurkey mclurker
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:11 am

OMG Kitasan Black looks sooooooooooooo good in the paddock. I can't even. :shock:

ETA: Rey de Oro looks fit too, but Mr Black is just built like a beast at the mo.

Boom Time has a lovely walk, a long swinging stride.

Idaho is all tail-swishy & head tossing... not in an upset way, but he's a bit keyed up.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:25 am

That's typical Idaho. Actually, that's pretty much many Galileos. You could count on his bro, Highland Reel, to work up a good sweat before his races, as well.
lurkey mclurker
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:39 am

Yeah he's a bit washy now they've warmed up and are walking behind the gate...
lurkey mclurker
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:57 am

OH MY GOD.

What a finish. My hands are shaking. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Cheval Grand by a length over Rey de Oro & Kitasan Black, just heads apart.

...WOW.

ETA: Makahiki fourth & Idaho up for fifth.

Still wowed. :shock:

ETAA: I didn't know that Cheval Grand is half to *both* Verxina & Vivlos! What else is there to say but... WOW. :lol:
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:27 am

They should make a statue of Kitasan Black and set it up at Tokyo, like the statue of Yeats at Ascot. He's sooooo handsome.
ETA: Too bad he couldn't hang on, but that was a good run by Cheval Grande. And a very fine ride by Hugh Bowman, Winx's jockey. Ol' Hughie's having a pretty nice year. ;) :D
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:34 am

Congratulations to Cheval Grand. Lovely horse and a direct tail-female descendant of the great mare, Glorious Song. And, of course, he's a grandson of Sunday Silence.
tachyon
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:41 am

-- replay (English)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7xp0R8Ab8U
1st 1 Cheval Grand(JPN)[Heart's Cry(JPN) x Halwa Sweet(JPN) by Machiavellian(USA)] H5 57 02:23.7
2nd 2 Rey de Oro(JPN) [King Kamehameha(JPN) x La Dorada(JPN) by Symboli Kris S(USA)] C3 55 02:23.9
3rd 4 Kitasan Black(JPN)[Black Tide(JPN) x Sugar Heart(JPN) by Sakura Bakushin O(JPN)] H5 57 02:23.9
4th 11 Makahiki(JPN) C4 57 02:24.6
5th 14 Idaho(IRE) C4 57 02:24.7
6th 9 Rainbow Line(JPN) C4 57 02:24.7
7th 8 Soul Stirring(JPN) F3 53 02:24.9
8th 16 Yamakatsu Ace(JPN) H5 57 02:25.0
9th 3 Guignol(GER) H5 57 02:25.0
10th 12 Satono Crown(JPN) H5 57 02:25.2
11th 13 Sciacchetra(JPN) C4 57 02:25.2
12th 5 Sounds of Earth(JPN) H6 57 02:25.2
12th 10 Boom Time(AUS) H6 57 02:25.2
14th 17 Last Impact(JPN) H7 57 02:25.3
15th 6 Iquitos(GER) H5 57 02:25.5
16th 15 One and Only(JPN) H6 57 02:25.7
17th 7 Decipher(JPN) H8 57 02:26.0


Yay for Cheval Grand(JPN) and his sire Heart's Cry(JPN)!!!! :lol:
But, obviously, the greatest is Cheval Grand's dam Halwa Sweet(JPN) who's produced three G1 winners!!!!
Her 3rd dam is the legendary Glorious Song(CAN).
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Starine
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:30 pm

Is Cheval Grand set to retire after this year? I'm sure with his pedigree he's going to be very popular at stud, though I wouldn't mind seeing him run another year ;)
tachyon
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Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:07 am

Starine wrote:Is Cheval Grand set to retire after this year? I'm sure with his pedigree he's going to be very popular at stud, though I wouldn't mind seeing him run another year ;)
Cheval Grand will be teamed up with Hugh Bowman again in the Arima Kinen.
And he will remain in training next year. :D

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Treve
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Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:50 pm

Thrilling finish! Congrats to Cheval Grand, how exciting that he'll keep running.
Just played this race last night on Champion Jockey actually :D
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
lurkey mclurker
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Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:15 pm

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:25 pm

Oooooh I was wondering if they'd get him back to ride in the Arima Kinen... \o/ And soo excited that Cheval Grand will stay in training next year! *happy dance*
lurkey mclurker
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Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:30 pm

Hmmmm... I don't think anyone was going to catch Cheval Grand, but interesting nonetheless.
G‏ @LongBallToNoOne 20h 20 hours ago

...... missing a shoe after the Japan Cup. It was on at the finish.
However Y.Take reported he felt something not quite right as KITASAN BLACK moved around in the straight #shoegate
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