The VENT Thread

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Saintly
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:43 am

Sparrow Castle wrote:
Saintly wrote:Hi Sparrow - that's a pretty good summary. With regard to your other questions, some of them are addressed in the article here https://www.sbs.com.au/news/how-easy-is ... -australia

Now, I am Joe Average, living in the suburbs of Melbourne and have no current criminal record. So should I want a gun, I tick most of the boxes. Where I fall short is being able to demonstrate a requirement for a gun. However I reckon I could get around that by declaring I was taking up hunting as a hobby and joining a registered Sporting Shooters Association or gun club. So I get my licence, my permit and of I go and buy a legal gun which is registered to me. A problem with that is that once I have my licence, I can keep buying as many legal guns as I like - there is no limit. So the issue of private citizens holding arsenals has got a little bit of media attention in recent times.

In 1996, perhaps the federal government's finest achievement was to get all of the states singing from the same hymn book (the states being responsible for gun laws). It had to be an all or nothing approach or it wouldn't work.

I'm not trying to paint a picture of some sort of nirvana here. We still have bad guys. We still have armed robberies. We still have murders by guns. But since Port Arthur and the gun law changes in 1996 we've not had another massacre. In the meantime, hunters have gone on hunting, farmers have continued to use guns to control vermin and put down sick / injured stock, target shooters have gone on shooting targets and clay pigeons have the same short lifespan they've always had. Here we can have gun control without impacting those who wish to legitimately use them
Oh thank you, Saintly. That's exactly the information I've been trying to find. I've added to my list of strategies "There's a 28-day mandatory waiting period for a first-time application. If the Permit to Acquire is granted, it is valid for 90 days.". That very well could impact the number of gun suicides, which can be somewhat impulsive, and buy time for others to recognize signs and intervene when someone is contemplating or planning gun violence.

Yes, I know we can't eliminate all gun violence but I do think we can do much better to make an impact on it if we approach this as a public health problem (similar to how we've decreased deaths by automobile accidents). I think it will take a variety of strategies (as was done in Australia) and, short of requiring gun registration and mandatory buyback which this country isn't ready for yet, I don't know how much these strategies will help. But I do know not doing anything sure isn't helping. It's a given that the mental health system needs more funding as well, but there doesn't seem to be much will to improve that either.
The mental health system is woefully underfunded here as well Sparrow. Unfortunately I've seen this first hand through my own daughters' illness. It's a silent epidemic
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Sparrow Castle
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:13 am

Saintly wrote:
Sparrow Castle wrote:
Saintly wrote:Hi Sparrow - that's a pretty good summary. With regard to your other questions, some of them are addressed in the article here https://www.sbs.com.au/news/how-easy-is ... -australia

Now, I am Joe Average, living in the suburbs of Melbourne and have no current criminal record. So should I want a gun, I tick most of the boxes. Where I fall short is being able to demonstrate a requirement for a gun. However I reckon I could get around that by declaring I was taking up hunting as a hobby and joining a registered Sporting Shooters Association or gun club. So I get my licence, my permit and of I go and buy a legal gun which is registered to me. A problem with that is that once I have my licence, I can keep buying as many legal guns as I like - there is no limit. So the issue of private citizens holding arsenals has got a little bit of media attention in recent times.

In 1996, perhaps the federal government's finest achievement was to get all of the states singing from the same hymn book (the states being responsible for gun laws). It had to be an all or nothing approach or it wouldn't work.

I'm not trying to paint a picture of some sort of nirvana here. We still have bad guys. We still have armed robberies. We still have murders by guns. But since Port Arthur and the gun law changes in 1996 we've not had another massacre. In the meantime, hunters have gone on hunting, farmers have continued to use guns to control vermin and put down sick / injured stock, target shooters have gone on shooting targets and clay pigeons have the same short lifespan they've always had. Here we can have gun control without impacting those who wish to legitimately use them
Oh thank you, Saintly. That's exactly the information I've been trying to find. I've added to my list of strategies "There's a 28-day mandatory waiting period for a first-time application. If the Permit to Acquire is granted, it is valid for 90 days.". That very well could impact the number of gun suicides, which can be somewhat impulsive, and buy time for others to recognize signs and intervene when someone is contemplating or planning gun violence.

Yes, I know we can't eliminate all gun violence but I do think we can do much better to make an impact on it if we approach this as a public health problem (similar to how we've decreased deaths by automobile accidents). I think it will take a variety of strategies (as was done in Australia) and, short of requiring gun registration and mandatory buyback which this country isn't ready for yet, I don't know how much these strategies will help. But I do know not doing anything sure isn't helping. It's a given that the mental health system needs more funding as well, but there doesn't seem to be much will to improve that either.
The mental health system is woefully underfunded here as well Sparrow. Unfortunately I've seen this first hand through my own daughters' illness. It's a silent epidemic
Sorry to hear that. My son also. Take care and, again, thank you for your help. I hope you keep posting on TBC. I love Australian racing and a Melbourne Cup visit is on my bucket list!
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Ballerina
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:23 pm

[quote="Saintly]That's not what I said but it doesn't matter. My issue was with your statement "Australia didn't institute gun control" when clearly it did. That was an inaccuracy I couldn't let pass.[/quote]

That, too, is not what I said. You've taken what I wrote out of context. This is what I wrote -

Australia didn't institute gun control. They instituted gun confiscation. It's not going to happen in the USA.

As mentioned previously, Australia has 25 million population; USA has 330 million. Major, major difference.
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Saintly
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:57 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:
Saintly wrote:
Sparrow Castle wrote: Oh thank you, Saintly. That's exactly the information I've been trying to find. I've added to my list of strategies "There's a 28-day mandatory waiting period for a first-time application. If the Permit to Acquire is granted, it is valid for 90 days.". That very well could impact the number of gun suicides, which can be somewhat impulsive, and buy time for others to recognize signs and intervene when someone is contemplating or planning gun violence.

Yes, I know we can't eliminate all gun violence but I do think we can do much better to make an impact on it if we approach this as a public health problem (similar to how we've decreased deaths by automobile accidents). I think it will take a variety of strategies (as was done in Australia) and, short of requiring gun registration and mandatory buyback which this country isn't ready for yet, I don't know how much these strategies will help. But I do know not doing anything sure isn't helping. It's a given that the mental health system needs more funding as well, but there doesn't seem to be much will to improve that either.
The mental health system is woefully underfunded here as well Sparrow. Unfortunately I've seen this first hand through my own daughters' illness. It's a silent epidemic
Sorry to hear that. My son also. Take care and, again, thank you for your help. I hope you keep posting on TBC. I love Australian racing and a Melbourne Cup visit is on my bucket list!
Unlikely mate. Even back in the day when I was here on TBC pretty much every day, I wasn't a prolific poster. These days I just swing past about this time of year to get a feel for which horses to look out for in the leadup to the Triple Crown. Any thoughts on that ?

Hope you get to tick off your bucket list. Cup Week in particular is a lot of fun and that October / November period is when racing takes centre stage here
stark
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:25 pm

Two quick questions....

1) What do y'all think about the shooter offering to plead Guilty in exchange for life in prison with no death penalty?

2) Any idea who is funding the kids protests, the buses etc?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics ... index.html
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Ballerina
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:05 pm

stark wrote:Two quick questions....

1) What do y'all think about the shooter offering to plead Guilty in exchange for life in prison with no death penalty?

2) Any idea who is funding the kids protests, the buses etc?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics ... index.html
I'm not for the death penalty - takes way too long to accomplish. Lock this kid up for life, no parole - maybe put him in the general population - that'll take care of the death penalty.

Haven't a clue as to financing - maybe the ACLU
BaroqueAgain1
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:25 pm

Maybe some very involved parents and teachers? Who are terrified that their child or student might be next? :? :(
stark
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:24 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Maybe some very involved parents and teachers? Who are terrified that their child or student might be next? :? :(
They seem to me to be too organized for a grass roots effort like what is going on, never even saw mention of a GoFundMe page, somebody is organizing it.

And this just in.....

“Amal and I are so inspired by the courage and eloquence of these young men and women from Stoneman Douglas High School,” George Clooney said in a statement Tuesday. “Our family will be there on March 24 to stand side by side with this incredible generation of young people from all over the country, and in the name of our children Ella and Alexander, we’re donating $500,000 to help pay for this groundbreaking event. Our children’s lives depend on it.”

Hours later, Oprah Winfrey donated half a million dollars herself to the cause, tweeting....
George and Amal, I couldn’t agree with you more. I am joining forces with you and will match your $500,000 donation to ‘March For Our Lives.’ These inspiring young people remind me of the Freedom Riders of the 60s who also said we’ve had ENOUGH and our voices will be heard.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Ballerina
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:29 pm

Supposedly this kid inherited nearly a million dollars from his late adoptive mother. I'm sure the courts will force him to use that money for a legal defense (should he not plead out) instead of asking for a court appointed attorney.
stark
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:29 pm

Ballerina wrote:Supposedly this kid inherited nearly a million dollars from his late adoptive mother. I'm sure the courts will force him to use that money for a legal defense (should he not plead out) instead of asking for a court appointed attorney.
Have to wonder just how "nice" the new parents were knowing that he was scheduled for the $800,000 on his 22nd birthday, hmmm!
The day after the shooting they filed papers in court seeking financial control.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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starrydreamer
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:07 pm

Ballerina wrote:Supposedly this kid inherited nearly a million dollars from his late adoptive mother. I'm sure the courts will force him to use that money for a legal defense (should he not plead out) instead of asking for a court appointed attorney.
He admitted to killing all those people. He's spending life in prison or getting the death penalty. What's he going to use that money for - commissary? Which will likely get stolen from him since the other inmates won't be so keen on a child killer. If he's dumb enough to turn down the plea and go to trial, he should use that money to pay a defense attorney to keep him off death row, which I doubt will happen. I'm fine if he pleads guilty and gets life in prison without possibility of parole for 30 years or so. I want him to sit in prison and think about how he killed classmates, with the vague hope that maybe he'll get out of prison someday if he can change.

As for financing, these kids are pretty well organized themselves. They're getting funding from celebrities. We complain and complain about "KIDS TODAY" and then we see them actually doing things and are immediately suspicious of who is REALLY behind their actions. What they're doing is admirable.
stark
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:28 pm

starrydreamer wrote: As for financing, these kids are pretty well organized themselves. They're getting funding from celebrities. We complain and complain about "KIDS TODAY" and then we see them actually doing things and are immediately suspicious of who is REALLY behind their actions. What they're doing is admirable.
True but....
Now we're learning that the organizers behind The Womans March are setting a March 3rd national protest for the kids
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/18/us/natio ... index.html

I was thinking that it sort of reminded me of Union Rebel Rousers that come in from out of the area and get folks organized to protest.

And, I'm assuming that Clooney and Oprah's money will go towards paying the overtime for police that are required for crowd control?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Ballerina
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:32 pm

Now knowing he has all that money, the parents of the slain children may bring a class action civil suit if he decides to take a plea deal.
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Insane Crazy
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:19 pm

stark wrote:True but....
Now we're learning that the organizers behind The Womans March are setting a March 3rd national protest for the kids
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/18/us/natio ... index.html

I was thinking that it sort of reminded me of Union Rebel Rousers that come in from out of the area and get folks organized to protest.

And, I'm assuming that Clooney and Oprah's money will go towards paying the overtime for police that are required for crowd control?
The students very clearly want to protest. If someone is giving them the resources and support to make it a big one, then kudos to them.

Not sure what your point is with the police overtime comment, though. Ensuring safe and peaceful protest is pretty high up there on the list of things on police job descriptions. They'll get paid for doing their job.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
stark
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:59 pm

Insane Crazy wrote: Not sure what your point is with the police overtime comment, though. Ensuring safe and peaceful protest is pretty high up there on the list of things on police job descriptions. They'll get paid for doing their job.
The additional expense for any protest should not be a taxpayers responsibility where city budgets are strained to the max. It's nice to see somebody stepping up and donating the necessary cash.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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starrydreamer
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:46 pm

stark wrote:
Insane Crazy wrote: Not sure what your point is with the police overtime comment, though. Ensuring safe and peaceful protest is pretty high up there on the list of things on police job descriptions. They'll get paid for doing their job.
The additional expense for any protest should not be a taxpayers responsibility where city budgets are strained to the max. It's nice to see somebody stepping up and donating the necessary cash.
I think it's nice if the protest movement can afford to pay the police force's overtime. However, requiring it would, I think, be a violation of the Constitution. Protest is a form of free speech. Requiring protesters to pay for the police would basically be a fee, which would preclude poor people from being able to protest, thus the violation of their free speech rights.
stark
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:11 pm

starrydreamer wrote:
I think it's nice if the protest movement can afford to pay the police force's overtime. However, requiring it would, I think, be a violation of the Constitution. Protest is a form of free speech. Requiring protesters to pay for the police would basically be a fee, which would preclude poor people from being able to protest, thus the violation of their free speech rights.
There's only X amount of dollars in any city budget and that has to cover costs for libraries, potholes, security, parks&recreation, schools, police, fire, salaries, etc etc etc.
I prefer my tax dollars NOT be spent controlling any organized protest movement. I'm not sure I can recall a protest movement with people in the streets producing a WINNING outcome for them? I say let the organizers provide their own private security/crowd control.

It's almost akin to pyromaniacs or careless campers and the city Fire Department, they've got enough on their hands without voluntary problems.
Somebody has to pay, either those responsible or the taxpayer.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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starrydreamer
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:08 pm

stark wrote:
starrydreamer wrote:
I think it's nice if the protest movement can afford to pay the police force's overtime. However, requiring it would, I think, be a violation of the Constitution. Protest is a form of free speech. Requiring protesters to pay for the police would basically be a fee, which would preclude poor people from being able to protest, thus the violation of their free speech rights.
There's only X amount of dollars in any city budget and that has to cover costs for libraries, potholes, security, parks&recreation, schools, police, fire, salaries, etc etc etc.
I prefer my tax dollars NOT be spent controlling any organized protest movement. I'm not sure I can recall a protest movement with people in the streets producing a WINNING outcome for them? I say let the organizers provide their own private security/crowd control.

It's almost akin to pyromaniacs or careless campers and the city Fire Department, they've got enough on their hands without voluntary problems.
Somebody has to pay, either those responsible or the taxpayer.
Protests aren't about winning. Putting my personal feelings about protests aside - you'll never find me at one, because I don't like crowds and I really don't like yelling - people have the right to have their voices heard. If they feel that their elected officials aren't listening to them - and they aren't - they have the right to make people hear them.

And you think that protests movements don't work? The peaceful protests during the civil rights movement were paramount in getting the Civil Rights Act passed in the 1960s. And protests helped women get the right to vote.

However - I will say that protests aren't enough. For a protest to be successful, there also needs to be behind-the-scenes stuff being done, like lobbying and organizing. Which, in the case of the teens protesting against gun violence, there is.
stark
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:27 pm

LONG BEACH — A Placentia man who rode a white horse on the 91 Freeway in Long Beach on his 29th birthday the morning of Saturday, Feb. 24, was arrested on suspicion of drunken driving, California Highway Patrol officials said.

According to a CHP news release, a 911 caller, around 1 a.m. reported a man riding a white horse eastbound on the 91 from Paramount Boulevard to Downey Avenue. CHP officers found the man after he exited at Downey Avenue and rode into Bellflower.

The rider, identified as Luis Alfredo Perez, was stopped and interviewed by officers who administered field sobriety tests and determined he was under the influence of alcohol, officials said.
https://www.ocregister.com/2018/02/24/o ... um=twitter
Image
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:55 pm

The horse looks like an Arabian, and someone took the time to braid/tie up its mane. Horse probably had more sense as a driver than his/her rider. :P
Last edited by BaroqueAgain1 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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