The VENT Thread

Re: The VENT Thread

Postby stark » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:09 am

Ballerina wrote:Then why is it that the majority of these killers choose to shoot themselves the minute armed personnel show up?


Because they really have no sense of life and death. So now they are either in search of the 72 virgins or they're thinking it's just like their favorite video game and there's a "start over" button at the end.

Gives Kamikaze a whole new definition.
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby stark » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:14 am



Curious.....do you get all your news from TheOnion?
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby starrydreamer » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:19 am

Ballerina wrote:
Tessablue wrote:Man, imagine what it must be like to hear about these incidents and think "Guns are good and I must defend them. We need more guns."

Yet another one of those shameful legacies my generation has to tear down and rebuild, I guess.


Let me ask you this. If someone approaches you aiming a gun at you, wouldn't you want to be carrying, as well. Sad to say - it wasn't always this way so it's the current generation that is causing the problem. It's now kill or be killed and until the good guys show the bad guys they are not going to get away with their ****, it's not going to change. Illinois has the strongest gun laws in the Union and the most crime. Texas has the most guns and the least crime.


I'm not sure where you got the stats that IL has the most crime and TX has the least. Here's the US News and World Reports list of safest states by violent crimes (and gun crimes are always violent) - https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/crime-and-corrections/public-safety. IL is actually rated as safer than TX (30th vs 35th for violent crimes).

Washington Post released a guide last year on gun regulation by state - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/national/assault-weapons-laws/?utm_term=.b1bd452a1fff. The states with the most restrictions are CT (which happened in response to Newtown), CA, MD, MA, NJ, and NY, plus DC. These are the only states that ban assault weapons, which is what most mass shootings use. An assault weapon is generally defined as "any semi-automatic weapon that includes features or attachments 'that appear useful in military and criminal applications but unnecessary in shooting sports or self-defense.'"

TX actually has more gun regulation laws than you might think - it bans high-risk individuals and those convicted of domestic violence. They have open carry laws that are more permissive than IL's, true, but IL's open carry license really isn't that difficult to get (my husband's family pretty much all live in IL and they're hunters).

So if you take the US News and World Reports list of safest states and superimpose the WaPo data regarding gun laws, here are the top 10 safest states and their gun laws:
1. Vermont - only bans individuals with domestic violence convictions. But we can all agree that VT attracts only peace loving hippies? :lol: :lol:
2. Maine - bans those with DV convictions and high-risk individuals.
3. Virginia - same as Maine
4. New Hampshire - same as Vermont
5. Idaho - no restrictions. But they have more cattle than people anyway. :lol:
6. Connecticut - bans assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, has universal background checks, and bans those with DV convictions and high-risk individuals.
7. Kentucky - prohibits high-risk individuals only
8. Wyoming - same as Kentucky
9. Utah - same as Maine
10. North Dakota - same as Kentucky

Here are the 10 states with the highest violent crime rate plus their gun laws:
1. Alaska - only bans high-risk individuals
2. Nevada - mandatory background check, plus bans on high-risk individuals and DV convicts
3. New Mexico - same as Alaska
4. Tennessee - bans high-risk individuals and DV convicts
5. Louisiana - bans only DV convicts
6. Arkansas - same as Alaska
7. South Carolina - same as Alaska
8. Delaware - same as Nevada
9. Missouri - same as Alaska
10. Alabama - same as Tennessee

Here is my interpretation of those two lists - more permissive gun laws are correlated to higher violent crime rates, but more restrictive laws are not necessarily correlated with less violent crime. And actually, as I've gone through the WaPo guide, I'm not sure how much I like it because it doesn't address open-carry or any states that may allow guns on school grounds nor does it address loopholes like no need for background check if gun is bought at a gun show (which would explain why NV is so violent despite having a universal background check law - there are a lot of gun shows in NV). If anyone is interested, I can delve deeper into certain states' gun laws - part of my job is legal research, so I have access to a lot of resources.

As for cities, you're probably thinking of Chicago, which is rather notorious in the media for crime. However, it's not the most violent city in the US - according to Forbes, Detroit is, followed by St Louis, Oakland, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, Stockton, Cleveland, and Buffalo. Chicago doesn't make their top 10 list. CBS News did a feature a little while back on the deadliest cities. The top 10 list is as follows:
1. St Louis
2. Baltimore
3. New Orleans
4. Detroit
5. Cleveland
6. Kansas City
7. Memphis
8. Chicago
9. Cincinnati
10. Las Vegas (the recent deadly mass shooting there is not included in these stats)
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby Tessablue » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:30 am

Ballerina wrote:
Tessablue wrote:Man, imagine what it must be like to hear about these incidents and think "Guns are good and I must defend them. We need more guns."

Yet another one of those shameful legacies my generation has to tear down and rebuild, I guess.


Let me ask you this. If someone approaches you aiming a gun at you, wouldn't you want to be carrying, as well. Sad to say - it wasn't always this way so it's the current generation that is causing the problem. It's now kill or be killed and until the good guys show the bad guys they are not going to get away with their ****, it's not going to change. Illinois has the strongest gun laws in the Union and the most crime. Texas has the most guns and the least crime.

If someone has a gun on you and you pull out a gun, you get shot. That's like, self defense 101.

And while I suppose it must be uncomfortable to acknowledge the inevitable destruction of your cultural ideology (I wouldn't know), I can't say that I understand the desire to literally make things up from thin air. Like, it's insanely easy to just google "crime rates by state" and... oh, starry did it already. Thanks starry, and also sorry you had to do that?

Anyways, there's literally nothing either of you can do to prevent your ideology from eventually being banished to the most shameful pages of the history books. A small solace in light of so many horrible, preventable tragedies... but a comforting inevitability nonetheless.
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby stark » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:48 am

just pass a new gun law and everything will be fine!

and while you're at it, how about a new law against texting while driving before more people get killed.
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby starrydreamer » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:49 am

Eh, I don't mind.

What makes me nuts is the assumption that, because I am for stricter gun control, I am anti-gun and am a liberal elitist who has never touched a gun. I am not anti-gun. I've gone shooting before, and my husband's family has guns. They hunt. I'm actually kind of bummed because my husband and BIL are shooting clay pigeons this weekend and I don't get to go because I have to watch our kid. I have no desire to go hunting but I don't have problems with other people hunting as long as they're doing it legally (and I think generally state hunting laws are decent).

What I do have a problem with are assault weapons that aren't used for hunting and that civilians have no reason to possess and high-capacity magazines. No one needs those things if you aren't military or law enforcement. I also have a problem with open carry. Sure, you consider yourself a good guy, but I don't know you - how do I know you're not gonna shoot me because you think I'm a bad guy? More importantly - how do I know that you actually know how to use that gun in high stress situations? The military and law enforcement are trained extensively for those situations. The average civilian is not and there's no way for everyone around to know if you are not an average civilian.
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby stark » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:39 pm

starrydreamer wrote:
What makes me nuts is the assumption that, because I am for stricter gun control, I am anti-gun and am a liberal elitist who has never touched a gun.


Is someone here guilty of that?
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby Ballerina » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:56 pm

starrydreamer wrote:I'm not sure where you got the stats that IL has the most crime and TX has the least. Here's the US News and World Reports list of safest states by violent crimes (and gun crimes are always violent) - https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/crime-and-corrections/public-safety. IL is actually rated as safer than TX (30th vs 35th for violent crimes).


If you read it correctly, Illinois is higher than TEXAS in violent crime

starrydreamer wrote:Washington Post released a guide last year on gun regulation by state - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/national/assault-weapons-laws/?utm_term=.b1bd452a1fff. The states with the most restrictions are CT (which happened in response to Newtown), CA, MD, MA, NJ, and NY, plus DC. These are the only states that ban assault weapons, which is what most mass shootings use. An assault weapon is generally defined as "any semi-automatic weapon that includes features or attachments 'that appear useful in military and criminal applications but unnecessary in shooting sports or self-defense.'" )


Hand guns, other than revolvers, are semi-automatic.



starrydreamer wrote:As for cities, you're probably thinking of Chicago, which is rather notorious in the media for crime. However, it's not the most violent city in the US - according to Forbes, Detroit is, followed by St Louis, Oakland, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, Stockton, Cleveland, and Buffalo. Chicago doesn't make their top 10 list. CBS News did a feature a little while back on the deadliest cities. The top 10 list is as follows:
1. St Louis
2. Baltimore
3. New Orleans
4. Detroit
5. Cleveland
6. Kansas City
7. Memphis
8. Chicago
9. Cincinnati
10. Las Vegas (the recent deadly mass shooting there is not included in these stats)


I guess it depends on what list you want to believe. Forbes or CBS News. I don't see any cities in Texas on either list.

God forbid anyone is ever caught in a situation where there is a shooter. You'll bless the man or woman who takes that person down with a legally owned weapon used by someone who knows what they're doing. Not everyone should carry a gun if you're afraid to use it or more importantly don't now how to use it.

But, frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing that it's my generation that has caused the problems of rampant violence in this country and the current generation is going to fix it. HAH and double HAH. So long as sanctuary cities and illegal immigration is embraced by the left, the current generation is not going to solve a thing - especially if they keep voting such ilk back into office.
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby Tessablue » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:20 pm

I've been in an active shooter situation. I was with a friend who is an immigrant (foreign concept, I know), and she was less disturbed by the experience and more upset by the fact that we all immediately knew what it meant and what to do when we saw people running past us. See, in most countries kids aren't raised to think about or fear being slaughtered in public, because it doesn't happen. It doesn't have to happen here, either, but it will keep happening until your incomprehensibly vicious, fearmongering, nihilistic ideology is ground into dust. And if my generation doesn't do it, the next one will. Your lot might keep trying, but you can't kill all of us.
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Re: The VENT Thread

Postby Ballerina » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:23 pm

Tessablue wrote:I've been in an active shooter situation. I was with a friend who is an immigrant (foreign concept, I know), and she was less disturbed by the experience and more upset by the fact that we all immediately knew what it meant and what to do when we saw people running past us. See, in most countries kids aren't raised to think about or fear being slaughtered in public, because it doesn't happen. It doesn't have to happen here, either, but it will keep happening until your incomprehensibly vicious, fearmongering, nihilistic ideology is ground into dust. And if my generation doesn't do it, the next one will. Your lot might keep trying, but you can't kill all of us.


Just curious - what lot are you referring to?!~ If you mean me (my lot), I can't imagine how much more obtuse you can get.
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