2017 Fasig-Tipton November Sale

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Retrospectiv
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:33 pm

I'll be curious to see if Songbird's conformation effects her price any.

Frankly amazed she stayed as sound as she did given how horribly over at the knees she is.

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mariasmon
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:57 pm

That's unfortunate, as she's just excellent in every other way. The November sales are a master class in how talent comes in every shape and size.
lurkey mclurker
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Holy wow, you weren't kidding. :shock: Amazing indeed!
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Ridan_Remembered
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:57 pm

This is a photo of Songbird as a yearling. She wasn't over at the knee then. Perhaps this more recent photo just caught her as she was moving, taking a step and putting her foot down. That's the problem with judging a horse just from a single photo. We can't know what happened the moment before and after the photo was taken.

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mariasmon
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:23 pm

I dunno. She looks over at the knee in every recent photo I've seen. I'm not so quick to judge from one image.
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Northport
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:26 pm

She's still over at the knee in her yearling photo
weeeeeeeee
Somnambulist
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:22 pm

Northport wrote:She's still over at the knee in her yearling photo
Definitely, and you can't get your knee to bend like that even with a weird step. Her knee even bends in. Yikes.

She's impeccably bred and her less than stellar knees didn't effect her ability, so I wonder what she brings, too. I find these November sales to be fascinating.
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Izvestia
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:20 am

Yikers
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bare it all
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:42 am

https://www.horseracingnation.com/blogs ... an_Day_123

Here are several photos from the recent fan day. She is most definitely not a study in conformation through those front knees/legs, but it obviously didn't deter her from being a top class mare.
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starrydreamer
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:03 am

The Fox Hill Farm folks do, I think, an extremely good job buying horses with good conformation, so they must not have been too concerned with her being over at the knee. IIRC, over at the knee is better than being back at the knee. It shouldn't affect her price at all at auction.
Izvestia
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:14 am

Perfect conformation doesn't equal better athlete!
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Retrospectiv
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:14 pm

Izvestia wrote:Perfect conformation doesn't equal better athlete!
No it doesn't, but in a breeding prospect who did have soundness issues, it's got to effect price at some level.

To whomever mentioned she could have been stepping forward.....she wasn't. There's tons of recent photos of her...photos Taylor Made were comfortable sharing on their own page.
I've always read the same...given a choice over at the knees is better than back at the knee. But correct is always better obviously.

Wonderful she was. Correct, she certainly ain't.....

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mariasmon
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:52 pm

When it comes to broodmare prospects, buyers tend to more easily overlook conformation issues if the filly/mare could run, which Songbird obviously could. You see mares sell every year for well into 7 figures, even if they are less than perfect. Songbird, as a dual champion, is a special offering and it probably won't affect her price much.
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Retrospectiv
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:08 pm

I agree wit you Mons. I think buyers tend to be far more forgiving of conformation issues in their broodmare prospects vs stallions prospects.
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Treve
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:32 pm

It's clear she was over at the knee as a yearling but nowhere near what she is now so I think the stress of racing contributed to her current state which in addition to everything else mentioned in the thread, leads me to believe buyers will be extremely forgiving. She's 3/4 lengths off a perfect racing record, champion at 2 and 3 and I've no doubt in my mind she could've very well been a champ at 4 were it not for the unfortunate latent issue.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
BaroqueAgain1
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:01 pm

I have a question for those of you with more knowledge about how conformation affects a horse when running top speeds.
Could being over at the knee have contributed to her injuries?
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Treve
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:33 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:I have a question for those of you with more knowledge about how conformation affects a horse when running top speeds.
Could being over at the knee have contributed to her injuries?
In part, but I almost want to say in her case her hind situation probably contributed to adding more stress to the front. Her bone chip was in one of her front legs right? THAT certainly could have been the sum total of the suspensory injuries in the back + being over at the knee.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Treve
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:24 am

http://soarwithsongbird.com/ beautiful promo job from Taylor Made.
Also there's a clip of her yearling sale in the video, she definitely wasn't as over at the knee as now, and even now she isn't as badly over as that photo in the thread. Though I did take note of some of the angles of the shot ;)
Really looking forward to the fireworks tonight!
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
Izvestia
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:50 am

What are our guesses for what she goes for? I haven't a clue, but ignoring her funny legs, I'd say at least $8 million.
oldgraymare
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:39 am

Considering her as a broodmare prospect I would look at her pedigree. Are there over at the knee horses in her lineage? If not it is a conformation issue singular to her...a birth defect. Therefore she can't transfer the knee issue to her offspring. It would be a non-issue in the sale price for me. That being said I still can't afford her. :(
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