Barbados Oaks

Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby aethervox » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:22 pm

Miesque1973 wrote:I've got a bunch of ARMs, actually. (American Racing Manuals. Not arms. Two are enough, though I guess I could use more)

Local HP Books are wonderful (there's probably 5 in my general area (north of Austin), but down here, horse racing isn't exactly a going concern. There's usually few 'Trendsetters' books about Quarter Horse stallions. About which I have very little interest, though I do have copies of 'Foundation Sires of the American Quarter Horse' and 'Foundation Mares of the American Quarter Horse', because everybody knows I need more books. I'll die under an biblovanche one day, I'm sure.

I buy my ARM's thru Abebooks, Half.com and Amazon. Sometimes they're cheap. Sometimes they edge right to the far end of my budget, and then I see some dude in Austria selling the whole kit & kaboodle of them ALL for beaucoup buques and I want to die.

~Miesque


I've found http://www.bookfinder.com/ very useful for finding unusual books.

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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Flanders » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:42 am

Miesque1973 wrote:Has there been any headway on finding those Barbados Oaks & Fillies' Guineas winners?

~Miesque

They responded to me today with some email addresses to try. I have sent them to you via a PM. I figured it would be best to give them to you since you know exactly what information you are looking for.
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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:33 pm

I got an answer from the same email contact.

Fillies' Guineas
2004 Lady Constance
2005 Santa Faye
2006 Zouk
2007 Kate O'Connor
2008 Fresh Milk
2009 Heaven Sent
2010 Leave It To Me
2011 Kendal Moon
2012 Vapour Trail
2013 Vanity Affair (or Vanity Fair)
2014 Princess Di(BAR)
2015 not run ?
2016 not run ?

I'm guessing that the Fillies' Guineas has also been discontinued or it has not been run in the past two years. The Barbados Jockey Club website results section has no information on the Fillies' Guineas for this year or last year. I wonder if weather might be a factor, or if the race has also been discontinued entirely. Maybe I can dig something up some day.


Barbados Oaks
2005 Santa Faye(BAR)
2006 Border Secret(BAR)
2007 Border Secret(BAR)
2008 Bouncebak(BAR)

Definitely discontinued. I'm not even sure why. I also couldn't figure out what the distance. From the times I received, I think it was 10 furlongs.


I think we can call this a triumph of perseverance. Or pestering. Whichever sounds best. :D

~Miesque
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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:06 pm

In case anyone's interested, I'll be selling a 1955 American Racing Manual on EBay. It goes up tonight (need to upload a photo) for $20. It has some highlighter marks and underline marks here & there but is in otherwise good shape. I'm listing it as in 'fair' shape, but nothing is falling apart, the binding is in good shape, and it seems quite perky for its age.

I'll edit this post with the link later. I'm 'working', so I can't jump up and go find the book, hunt down the camera, try to remember how to operate the camera and take a picture that shows a badly-lit and vaguely mutant-looking version of the 1955 American Racing Manual. Margaret Bourke-White I'm not.

I'm really thinking of starting a blog, in hopes of getting other ARM owners to collaborate on Derby/Oaks/Guineas/St. Leger race winners from all over, hither to yon. I started one a few days ago but got so busy... <sigh>

The link is http://www.ebay.com/itm/272433742649?ss ... 1555.l2648

~Miesque
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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:11 pm

I've had some encouraging news: The Kenya Jockey Club (well, Ngong Racecourse, where I guess the KJC is located?) has finally responded to my pleas for information on the histories of the Kenya Triple Crown series. Hopefully I'll be getting something in the next few...er... days. The horses involved will be a hard slog to search through, but I'm determined to find them, by cracky!

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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:59 pm

I'm still waiting on Kenya Triple Crown histories. There's some kind of problem with getting emails to me (I get loads of junk mail EVERY DAY but I can't get what I really want?!). I may end up having to try & get them to just send it by snailmail! I got some email addresses & tried to send requests out, but they kept coming back as undeliverable. So I have no idea.

I'll update if and when I get anything. Once I do, I'll be posting questions on pedigrees, most likely. Kenya-breds... well, they're just not likely to be found in the APR or BRIS or Equineline or even in Bloodhound.

Three fillies have swept the Kenya Fillies' Triple Crown:

Windsong, dkb.f. 1995 by Rana Pratap x Tanamara, by Murmatch(GB) (Fillies' Guineas, Oaks, St. Leger, 1999) (I'll have to look again to see if Windsong was Kenya-bred)
Happy Times(SAF), b.f 2011 Casey Tibbs(SAF) x Young At Heart(SAF), by Victory Moon
Western Ballad(SAF), b.f. 2012 Go Deputy(SAF) x Western Serenade(SAF), by Western Winter

Thus far, I've not found any Kenya Triple Crown winners (Derby, Guineas, St. Leger). The races are all run at Ngong Racecourse in Nairobi, and all at the traditional English classic distances. Which I think is pretty cool. :D

~Miesque
Last edited by Miesque1973 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:38 pm

I've had to give up any hope on Kenya. Pleas are unanswered. So... <sigh> What can you do? I tried.

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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:25 pm

By tomorrow night I will just have to give up on Kenya entirely. Some kind of email issue seems to be going on -- they tried to send it, but the email won't come to me. What the issue might be, I've not a clue.

<sigh> I was so hopeful. I really was.

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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:52 am

Well, just when I thought all was lost... I finally got the histories of all the Kenyan Triple Crown races.

I'm just in the Kenya Guineas now. I found two mares so far that go into my project:

BELINDA II(GB), b. 1965 (Sunny Way(GB)-Bravura III(GB), by Tudor Minstrel(IRE) #14b
Endeavour(SAF), ch.g. 1972 (Amber Glass(GB) - Kenya Guineas
Pretty Witch(SAF), ch.f. 1977 (Dobrush(ITY) - Kenya Guineas

and

Leaflet (whose pedigree eludes me so far) dam of Kenya Guineas winners
Brushwood, ch.g. 1973 by Dobrush(ITY)
Manuscript, b.f. 1974 by Dobrush(ITY)

If anybody can hunt Leaflet down, that'll help, but right now I'm heading into the Kenya Derby histories. She had to have been foaled around at least 1969. The

I'm so thrilled to get this stuff I nearly peed myself.

Which means I am a total geek.

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Re: Barbados Oaks

Postby Miesque1973 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:21 pm

I'm just in the process of starting on searching for the Kenya Triple Crown series winners, but will get to the whole list later. Right now I'm looking for pedigrees on these mares. I can't find year of birth, exact country of birth, full pedigrees back to a mare found in the GSB, or much else (you'd suppose they come from British-breds, but again... who knows?). The person I contacted in Kenya (and sent the winners' lists) will, I hope, answer soon enough, but there's no harm in trying to get the ball rolling. Besides, I want stuff done NOW, which is a personal trait of mine that drives my family absolutely crazy. I get it from my father. <sigh>

LINTON FAIR(KEN), c1998. (Murrmatch(GB)-x Domani, by Dobrush(ITY) #??
Tinseltown(KEN), ch.f. 2002 (Triarius) - Kenya Derby
Warai(KEN), ch.c. 2004 (Triarius) - Kenya Derby

BUMMELKITE(KEN), c1930 (sire/dam/broodmare sire)
Jarabub(KEN), b.g. 1941 (Messenger Boy(GB) - Kenya Derby
Tantivy(KEN), blk.f. 1934 (Four-in-Hand(GB) - Kenya Derby

DOWNWIND(KEN), c1931 (sire/dam/broodmare sire)
Aeolia(KEN), b.c. 1935 (Zilvernia(GB) - Kenya St. Leger
Windjammer(KEN), ch.c. 1938 (Zilvernia(GB) - Kenya St. Leger

CAMARGO, c1926 - (sire/dam/broodmare sire)
Cato(KEN), ch.g. 1930 (Carval) - Kenya St. Leger
Fandango(KEN), ch.f. 1954 (Frosty Moon) - Kenya St. Leger ???
I'm not sure if Camargo is the same mare to have produced those two foals. That's a twenty year gap between foals!

ARCHDUCHESS(KEN), c1944 (sire/dam/broodmare sire)
Aristocracy(KEN), br.f. 1946 (Authentic) - Kenya St. Leger
Royal Folly(KEN), b.f. 1944 (Crisis(GB) - Kenya Derby, Kenya St. Leger

WISE CHILD(KEN), <>. 1922 (Wise Dove(GB)-Ask Papa, by ??)
Toyland(KEN), br.f. 1928 (Cerval) - Kenya St. Leger
Zarzuella(KEN), b.f. 1938 (Zilvernia(GB) - Kenya Derby
This is the same Wise Child trained by Beryl Markham to win the Kenya St. Leger in 1926. If I recall, the story about this mare is in Into the West

COLLARCELLE(KEN), c1933 (sire/dam/broodmare sire)
Blackbird(KEN), blk.g. 1937 (Wise Dove(GB) - Kenya Derby
Cellarwise(KEN), ch.f. 1938 (Wise Dove(GB) - Kenya Derby

YOUR TURN(KEN), c1968 (Amber Glass(GB)-??, by ??)
Silver Dipper(KEN), ch.f. 1972 (Silver Churn(GB) - Kenya Derby
Turn Up(KEN), b.f. 1975 (Kentra(GB) - Kenya Guineas, Kenya Oaks

NAMASTE JI(KEN), c1984 (Kentra(GB)-Star Brush, by Dobrush(ITY)
Jai Bajrangi(KEN), b.g. 1989 (Murrmatch(GB) - Kenya Derby
Jai Durga(KEN), dkb.f. 1991 (Rana Pratap) - Kenya Derby

STAR BRUSH(KEN), c1977 (Dobrush(ITY)-Anthem, by Toronto(GB)
Galileo(KEN), ch.g. 1981 (Kentra(GB) - Kenya St. Leger
MORNINGSTAR(KEN), b.g. 1986 (Murrmatch(GB) - Kenya Guineas, Kenya Derby, Kenya St. Leger
Wallace(KEN), b.g. 1984 (Murrmatch(GB) - Kenya Derby

PORTLASS, c1934 (Portlaw-Kilcaskin ??????) I'm not sure if this is the right pedigree; I suspect it's not right
Cutlass(KEN), b.g. 1958 (Benny Lynch(GB) - Kenya Derby
Trieste(KEN), b.g. 1965 (Pinzano) - Kenya Guineas

PERSONALITY CLASH, c1993 (sire/dam/broodmare sire)
Adamant(KEN), 1997 (Riverton Heights(IRE) - Kenya Derby
Sonya(KEN), br.f.1998 (Heard a Whisper(GB) - Kenya St. Leger

IRONY(KEN), b. 1982 (Iron Lad-Blonde Streak, by Kentra(GB)
Parody(KEN), ch.f. 1993 (Hachiman(ZIM) - Kenya Oaks, Kenya St. Leger
Simile(KEN), ch.f. 1991 (Hachiman(ZIM) - Kenya Fillies' Guineas

SITA(KEN), c1990 (Dobrush(ITY)-Kashina(FR), by Sanhedrin) #14
Jaanki(KEN), ch.f. 1994 (Riverton Heights(IRE) - Kenya Oaks
Jaasi Ki Rani(KEN), br.f. 1995 (Heard a Whisper(GB) - Kenya Guineas

OVERDEBEN(KEN), c1980 (Moby Dick-Oakbeam, by The Plough(GB)
Jai Mata Di(KEN), 1985 (Dobrush(ITY) - Kenya Derby, Kenya St. Leger
Underwood, ch.g. 1987 (Dobrush(ITY) - Kenya St. Leger

DORADO(KEN), c. 1977 (Dobrush(ITY)-Cachalot, by Calvero(GB)
Blue Marlin(KEN), b.f. 1991 (Rana Pratap) - Kenya Oaks
Coral(KEN), b.f. 1981 (Silver Churn) - Kenya Fillies' Guineas

ATHENA(KEN), c1990 (Murrmatch(GB)-Queen of Hearts(??), by Heartburn II(GB)
Royal Blend(KEN), ch.c. 1994 (Rana Pratap) - Kenya Derby
Sovereign Star(KEN), ch.f. 1989 (Dobrush(ITY) - Kenya Oaks

LEAFLET(KEN), c. 1957 (sire/dam/broodmare sire)
Brushwood(KEN), ch.g. 1973 (Dobrush(ITY) - Kenya Guineas
Manuscript(KEN), ch.g. 1974 (Dobrush(ITY) - Kenya Guineas, Kenya Derby

I'm only assuming that most of the mares were foaled in Kenya, but that's just necessary inference. If any info can be found on pedigrees, I'd be happy.

There is one remarkable mare I found who had better be held in almost worshipful esteem in Kenya:

BELINDA II(GB), b. 1965 (Sunny Way(GB)-Bravura III(GB), by Tudor Minstrel(IRE) #14b
Beau Burn(KEN), ch.g. 1976 (Heartburn II(GB) – Kenya Derby
Belmo(KEN), b.g. 1973 (Moby Dick) – Kenya Derby
Desire(KEN), ch.f. 1971 (High Peak) – Kenya Oaks
Endeavour(KEN), ch.g. 1972 (Amber Glass(GB) - Kenya Guineas
PRETTY WITCH(KEN), ch.f. 1977 (Dobrush(ITY) - Kenya Guineas, Kenya Derby, Kenya St. Leger

Dobrush seems to have had quite an influence in Kenya. I need to look him up...

~Miesque
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