Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Miesque1973 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:06 pm

If anybody is interested in tiresome scouring of the internet, looking for histories of Triple Crown races all over the world and seeing if mares produced more than one winner of any such race, PM me and perhaps we can collaborate. I've found roughly 2400 such mares, from every corner of the globe, who have produced more than one Triple Crown race winner (plus lots of mares who have produced multiple winners of major, historic races, state-bred Derby/Oaks races, and so forth). Around about the end of September, each year, I have to scour through classic results and invariably a mare will pop up who proved a 'double-doer' (my term), so help with that is always good--not speaking the languages in those respective countries can make things hard, though I do seem to have a good bit of luck figuring it out (well, sometimes). It's fun, it's exhausting, and I blame the writers of Horse Racing Records, Facts & Champions for getting me started on this, as the book has a list of mares that had produced two or more winners of the English classics. I thought, "What about Ireland? And France? Germany? Scandinavia?" It grew from there, mushroom-like, and remains a fascinating project after at least five years of searching and editing and correcting and wondering how much more this flash drive can hold, what with other projects and a novel to boot. :)

For example, today I found the following mare:

PRINCESA DE ORO, b. 1994 (Noblesse Oil-Celleja, by Natidan) family #3o, dam of:
Kristian Quiles, b.c. 2005 (Casanova Star) - Derby Puertorriqueno
Ricky Slim, dkb.g. 2013 (Stoneyer) - Clasico San Juan (Puerto Rico)


~Miesque
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby BaroqueAgain1 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:34 pm

That sort of heroic research deserves some sort of payoff besides personal satisfaction. Perhaps Horse Racing Records or another racing info site (Equibase, Equineline, Bloodhorse?) would be willing to pay you something to have what's on your flash drive? :P :D
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Alywow » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:06 pm

Miesque, your namesake is still one of the best Classic producers. I loved that mare.
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Miesque1973 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:39 pm

Alywow wrote:Miesque, your namesake is still one of the best Classic producers. I loved that mare.


Me too. She was wonderful. I cried when I learned of her death, even though she had lived a long life. I cried when Alysheba died, too. They were from the same family (#20), y' know. :)

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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Insane Crazy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:22 pm

What a neat research project. Would definitely be interesting to take it even further and see what sort of common threads pop up among pedigrees. Paging Tessablue, statistics nerd to the stars.... ;)
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Treve » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:28 pm

Ah this sounds right up my alley. My username on an other site is Urban Sea for exactly this reason... Broodmares don't get nearly the amount of respect they deserve imo!
I guess I have a soft spot for an animal that can perform as well as produce. I espouse the general belief in breeding that "The pedigree tells you what the horse should be. The performance tells you what the horse appears to be. The offspring tells you what the horse really is."
So if you would like some assistance... especially in the French department, let me know ;)
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Miesque1973 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:22 am

I have an index of all the mares in my list, grouped alphabetically by family # and sub-family # (#1a, #1b, and so on). I'm a 'list' person. I need lists. Sometimes I think I'll make a list of all my DVD's and catalog all my books per the Dewey decimal system. I even have to make sure my sheets and quilt are straight (while lying under them, mind you) or I get headaches.

What? That's not normal?

Anyway. I totally forgot to add a couple of new mares to the index tonight, while searching through (woefully incomplete) Colombian classic histories at pq. Now I have to go hunt the mares down from the main document. I know at least one was from Colombia. Blast...

Ah, here they are:

BRUNETTA(COL), b. 1984 (Kabori-Bronzine(COL), by Trimmer(GB) family #22, dam of:
Tanburina(COL), b.f. 2001 (Election Day(IRE) - Polla de Potrancas (Colombian 1000 Guineas)
Tancredi(COL), dkb.c. 1996 (Fort Yukon) - Pollo de Potrillos (Colombian 2000 Guineas)
Tagarett(COL), b.f. 2002 (Fort Yukon) Premio Las Oaks (Colombian Oaks)

A triple-doer!

and

SHIRINA(COL), b. 1973 (Babur(GB)-Avila(COL), by Nur-Ud-Din(GB) family #4m, dam of:
DANILA(COL), b.f. 1979 (York(COL) – Polla de Potrancas (Colombia 1000 Guineas), Las Oaks (Colombia), Gran Premio Republica de Colombia (Colombian St. Leger)
Murano(COL), b.c. 1982 (York(COL) – Polla de Potrillos (Colombian 2000 Guineas), Gran Premio Nacional (Colombia)

I don't think I missed anybody else from today's searches (while working at my real job).

Finding anything out of Colombia, outside of PQ, is very difficult. In fact, except for Argentina (for the most part), anything out of South and Central America is a hard slog. I've managed to get nearly everything for Mexico's classic races, at least. Paraguay has racing. Uruguay has racing. I suspect nearly every country in South America has racing at some level, but information is hard to come by. No habla-ing the lingo doesn't help.

What's sort of scary is that I can remember some of the mares on the list, that I added a long time ago. "Oh, I remember her. She's already on the list. Let's check. Yep. There she is, in all her glory!" And yes, it is THRILLING to find another mare to add! :D

Treve, I'd love to find full histories of the Derby du Midi and Derby du Languedoc and the Derby de l'Ouest (??) (if there's other Derbys in France, I don't recall them, and I know they're relatively unimportant in the grand scheme, but I want 'em! LOL!). I don't think PQ has them, or at least not full histories. I like to keep up with those races as part of the 'any bloody Derby/Oaks I can find' part of my self-tortu-... er, project. :D

There is a somewhat helpful Facebook page called 'Derby Winners of the World'. They keep up with just about every Derby out there, and update fairly often.

I've also done some half-hearted research on Quarter Horse mares that have produced major stakes winners (no mare has produced two All American Futurity winners so far), plus Standardbred mares that produced dual trotting/pacing Triple Crown race winners, but neither sport interests me much. Eh...

Eyes are still stinging. Zyrtec didn't help. I need to live in a bubble.

~Miesque
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Treve » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:40 pm

I will see what I can find, and if not send an email to France Galop!
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Miesque1973 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:36 am

The Cyprus Jockey Club website is somewhat helpful, and you can find Volume 5 & Volume 6 of the Cyprus Stud Book online ("Google is our friend!"), and I've managed to find most of Cyprus's classic winners since 2007. If the series goes back further, I've not a clue.

Anyway, searching for various classic race histories (Barbados Oaks and Fillies' Guineas... pffft... ) gleaned another mare, and she's somewhat exotic, at least for where she ended up!

RUSSIAN BALLERINA(IRE), b. 1998 (Baltic Fox-L'Etoile(GB), by Soviet Star) #2f, dam of:
Gorgias(CYP), ch.g. 2008 (Moutain Spirit(GR) - Cyprus Derby
Madame Figaro(CYP), ch.f. 2006 (Mountain Spirit(GR) - Cyprus 1000 Guineas

Greece has a Derby (Triple Crown? Dunno), but I can't find the pedigrees of most of the winners (I'll delve into the Cyprus Stud Book and see if anything comes up at all). There's just so much out there, and most is hidden. The past couple of weeks have been very busy and I'm doing most of my research in the evening, after work, but these past few days, my sinus pressure has gone epic on me and it's hard to concentrate while whining.

Mountain Spirit is a grandson of Mr. Prospector, by the way.

~Miesque
Last edited by Miesque1973 on Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dams of Two or More Classic Winners

Postby Northport » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:16 am

Doff the Derby didn't produce two winners of the same Classic, but she did produce winners of the Derby and Oaks, which is pretty impressive in modern times. Here is a great article about here:

http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/news/b ... 0543/top/v
weeeeeeeee
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