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Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:30 pm
by Cigar
Please repost any info that you recall posting from before the crash.

Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:00 pm
by tachyon
I start with the Roses in May colt Dream Valentino!! :D

Dream Valentino(JPN), 2007H. Roses in May(USA) x Cosmo Valenti(JPN) by Meiner Love(USA)
http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001049453/

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The mutiple graded winner & mulitiple G1 placed has finished 2nd to Espoir City in the JBC Sprint (Jpn1) in his first test on the dirt on Nov 4.

-- replay of JBC Sprint 1400m dirt at Kanazawa on Nov 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEaC4V1FVtw
1st. (#12) Espoir Ciy
2nd. (#7) Dream Valentino

-- result of JBC Sprint
http://www.jbis.jp/race/result/20131104/222/09/

Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:01 pm
by Ridan_Remembered
Nice-looking horse, but doesn't appear to be a true black. True black is very rare in Thoroughbreds. Why this is, I don't know, but it is. Most Thoroughbreds that appear black will almost always have some brown in the coat and, of course, many grays are born black but begin showing gray pretty early.

Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:33 pm
by aethervox
Ridan_Remembered wrote:Nice-looking horse, but doesn't appear to be a true black. True black is very rare in Thoroughbreds. Why this is, I don't know, but it is. Most Thoroughbreds that appear black will almost always have some brown in the coat and, of course, many grays are born black but begin showing gray pretty early.


True black requires two recessive Agouti genes (they're the ones that cause bay). Agouti only acts on a black coat, so can be passed on by chestnuts, who won't show any sign of it.

There's a color calculator at http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp for those interested.

Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:05 pm
by Ridan_Remembered
Thank you for the calculator, although -- for me anyway -- it just confuses things. All I know is horses that appear black often have brown in the coat, usually on the flanks, belly, chest behind the elbows/shoulder, and muzzle. Here is a photo of a Freisan stallion who is true black with no brown anywhere in the coat. Of course, I'm talking about appearance, not genetics.

In 53 years of involvement with this sport I have never seen a true black Thoroughbred, although I have no doubt the color could exist in the breed. As rare as it is, true white and even albino seems to show up more often in Thoroughbreds than true black. Sunday Silence, who I saw numerous times in person during his racing days, was the closest to true black as I've ever seen. He stamped his get a lot, so many of his offspring were very dark. Possibly a small number were true black.

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Sunday Silence at Pimlico before the Preakness in 1989.

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Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:10 pm
by Miss Woodford
Dream Valentino (Roses in May x Cosmo Valenti by Meiner Love) certainly looks true black to me.
http://db.netkeiba.com/horse/pic/2007104877/

And Roses in May himself
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Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:02 pm
by BaroqueAgain1
Roses In May is gorgeous! Between him and Sunday, it's not surprising that the fields in Japanese races have a decidedly dark hue to them. :mrgreen:

Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:34 pm
by Cigar
Devil His Due looked true black to me, as did Halo.

Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:59 pm
by Ridan_Remembered
Miss Woodford wrote:Dream Valentino (Roses in May x Cosmo Valenti by Meiner Love) certainly looks true black to me.


Roses in May definitely looks true black in that photo as there doesn't appear to be any brown in the usual places where brown usually shows in otherwise black-looking horses.

Halo was registered as a black, but in this photo you can see brown in the hair in his ears, his forelock, on his muzzle, behind his shoulder/elbow, and on his flank. By the way, Halo wore a muzzle a lot, even in his paddock, because he was truly vicious. Halo tended to pass on his dark coat color and, often, his nasty temperament.

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Re: Black Thoroughbreds

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:59 am
by Life At Zen
Black coats do fade in sunlight, too, sometimes giving the appearance of brown hairs.