The rise of Sunday Silence

Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby Retrospectiv » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:07 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Retrospectiv wrote:
Ridan_Remembered wrote:Every time I check this thread I am reminded again what a mistake it was to sell Sunday to the Japanese instead of standing him in Kentucky even if breeders at the time were shortsighted. Oh well, at least he was appreciated in his new homeland and has had a massive influence over there.

Another subject: In that last photo of Deep Impact, he seems to have a filling or growth on his just below his right elbow.



With a different mare base, different dominant racing surface and different support level, it's impossible and improbable to speculate what Sunday Silence would have achieved at stud here. He could have easily been a flop and have ended up in Korea, Africa, who knows.


Perhaps, but a prepotent sire is a prepotent sire no matter where he stands.


Sure it is, but let's say you stood A.P. Indy in England instead of the US. How do you think his progeny would have fared in comparison racing on turf? I almost guarantee he'd not have been the success that he was standing here, serving largely dirt bred mares.
Same theory for Sunday Silence... he bred a large number of Northern Dancer line mares early on who were bred to run on the turf, and he was well supported. Unless he really was a super sire, I can't see how he'd have achieved the same success breeding dirt bred mares (and probably '2nd string' ones at that given the lack of real interest in him...), to run on dirt tracks.
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby Ridan_Remembered » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:45 am

Your point is quite valid, Retrospectiv. :)

However, there are numerous examples of stallions who were largely ignored by breeders (other than their owners) in the first few years of their stud careers, and who only became "fashionable" stallions when their offspring hit the track. Malibu Moon is a recent example. He started his stud career at the same small operation where Friesan Fire now stands. Dynaformer is another example of a prepotent stallion who was largely ignored until his babies hit the track. His stud fee was a lowly $5000 when he first went to stud, but rose to $150,000 at his peak.

Certainly the better quality mares a stallion can attract, the better chance he has to become an elite sire. But a prepotent stallion is going to sire a number of top class offspring even with lesser quality mares. And a top class racehorse is going to run well no matter what surface he or she runs on.

In any case, Sunday got his chance in Japan. At least he got that chance.
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby tachyon » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:56 pm

Fuji Kiseki(JPN), the eldest son of Sunday Silence(USA), became the first stallion in Japan to sire his grade stakes winners from his 16 consecutive crops, when Isala Bonita(JPN)[2011C. Fuji Kiseki(JPN) x Isla Cozzne(USA) by Cozzene(USA)] won the G3 Tokyo Sports Hai Nisai Stakes 1800m turf at Tokyo on Nov 16th 2013.

The previous record (At least one grade stakes winner from the stallion's 15 consecutive crops) had been held by Northern Taste(CAN) and himself.

Fuji Kiseki(JPN) : 1992H. Sunday Silence(USA) x Millracer(USA) by Le Fabuleux(FR)
http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0000262443/

-- lifetime race record: 4-4-0-0 (undefeated -- he had to be retired due to tendon injury before classic races)
http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0000262443/record/

-- replays of Fuji Kiseki's all wins: [MSW, Momiji Stakes, Asahi Hai(G1), Yayoi Sho(G2)] (1994-1995)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZQoqjYIXro

Image
Fuji Kiseki winning the G1 Asahi Hai in 1994

Image
Fuji Kiseki at Shadai Stallion Station

Image
Fuji Kiseki at Shadai Stallion Station (pick courtesy of Shdai Farm Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/ShadaiFarm#!/p ... 451&type=1
(his stud duty has been suspended since 2011 -- Everyone hopes he can enjoy his life as long as possible. ;) )
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby Ridan_Remembered » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:15 am

I love that last photo with his tongue sticking out. :)

Halo's black or near black color sure seems to be dominant through Sunday's line. Sunday, himself, wasn't black although he was quite dark. I saw him race here in Southern California, and was lucky to be up close to him a few times. But it sure does seem as though some of his offspring were true black or near black and the color seems to be carrying on down the generations.
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby tachyon » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:37 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:I love that last photo with his tongue sticking out. :)

Halo's black or near black color sure seems to be dominant through Sunday's line. Sunday, himself, wasn't black although he was quite dark. I saw him race here in Southern California, and was lucky to be up close to him a few times. But it sure does seem as though some of his offspring were true black or near black and the color seems to be carrying on down the generations.


Fuji Kiseki was not registered as black, either.
But he had some offspring that were registered as black.

Brightline(JPN), 2009 blk colt. Fuji Kiseki(JPN) x Cherie's Smile(USA) by King of Kings(IRE), is set to run in the G1 Japan Cup Dirt next week. :)
He is a multiple G3 winner on turf and dirt.

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Brightline (from JBIS-English)
http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001109255/
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby tachyon » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:06 pm

and more on Fuji Kiseki...

Fuji Kiseki has become the fourth stallion in history to have progeny reach 1,400 JRA wins, when his 4yo gelding Golden Crown(JPN)[o/o Gold Tiara(USA) by Seeking the Gold] won Tokyo 8R on November 23rd 2013.

-- number of JRA wins scored by stallion's offspring (as of Nov 23rd 2013)

1st. Sunday Silence(USA) 2749
2nd. Northern Taste(CAN) 1757
3rd. Brian's Time(USA) 1617
4th. Fuji Kiseki(JPN) 1400


Naohiro Goda, a racing jurnalist in Japan, wrote in 2008;

Zenya Yoshida introduced Sunday Silence to Japan in the spring of
1991. Word has it that most Japanese breeders were skeptical about this
horse’s future as a sire.
Some said there was a problem with his overly stormy temperament being
passed on. Some said they did not care for his cow hocks (a limb deformity
in the gambrels called splay foot or knock knees). And some, imagining
a muscular physique because he was said to be a dirt champion from
America, voiced disappointment when at first sight, he appeared to be a
fragile, gangly-legged horse.
Fuji Kiseki, debuted in summer 1994 as one of the first year’s crop,
utterly dispelled such talk and offered our first inkling that Sunday Silence
was not just any horse and may well be a super sire.
--------------------------
--------------------------
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby Retrospectiv » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:47 pm

Tachyon: As far as Sunday Silence sons on the racetrack go, how did Japanese fans rate Fuji Kiseki?
Watching his races, there was some SERIOUS talent there and even in that first start you could see he was a class above anything else. The reach and propulsion to his stride was something to see, especially for him only being two.

I know obviously Deep Impact ranks at the top but I wonder if they thought JK was one of the top colts, even with his abbreviated race record?
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby tachyon » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:50 am

Retrospectiv wrote:Tachyon: As far as Sunday Silence sons on the racetrack go, how did Japanese fans rate Fuji Kiseki?
Watching his races, there was some SERIOUS talent there and even in that first start you could see he was a class above anything else. The reach and propulsion to his stride was something to see, especially for him only being two.

I know obviously Deep Impact ranks at the top but I wonder if they thought JK was one of the top colts, even with his abbreviated race record?


Fuji Kiseki, even with his abbreviated race record, is definitely one of the most highly regarded Sunday Silence sons on the racetrack.
Sunday Silence sired five G1 winners from his first crop -- Fuji Kiseki (Asahi Hai), Genuine (Satsuki Sho, Mile Championship), Tayasu Tsuyoshi (Japanese Derby), Dance Partner (Japanese Oaks, QE2 Cup) and Marvelous Sunday (Takarazuka Kinen) -- who cemented Sunday Silence's reputation at stud.
And it is Fuji Kiseki who was regarded as the best of that memorable generation.
In the second race of the youtuve video above, he defeated Tayasu Tsuyoshi easily. His raw talent was just breathtaking.
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby Ridan_Remembered » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:02 pm

Sunday's granddaughter, Gentildonna, just won the Japan Cup for the second time. Her sire, of course, is Deep Impact.
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Re: The rise of Sunday Silence

Postby tachyon » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:11 pm

tachyon wrote:Cartier Award winner Dabirsim(FR), 2009C. Hat Trick(JPN) x Rumored(USA) by Royal Academy(USA), will stand his first season at Gestüt Karlshof (Germany) at a fee of €9,000. :D

http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/news/b ... d/1550190/

Stallion info and many picks of him can be found at the following Gestut Karlshof's homepage.
http://www.karlshof.com/en/deckhengste/ ... rlshof.php

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(copyright: marcruehl.com)


-- from Vollblutboerse.de facebook

Image

Here's new video of Dabirsim at Gestüt Karlshof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar-siZzhKbE
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