New Conformation Photos

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Flanders
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Sat May 19, 2018 5:15 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Treve wrote:Are there, worldwide stallions of each of the three founding sirelines still standing at stud/active? I thought the breed as a whole seemed to have neglected the Byerley line with most stallions either direct male descendants of the Godolphin and Darley lines.
I wonder how much real genetic diversity is left in the breed as a whole, I think if we went by DNA genotyping the breed would be far more inbred than even just going by pedigree.
If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?
Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.
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Miss Woodford
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Sat May 19, 2018 7:00 pm

Flanders wrote:
ThreeMustangs wrote:
Treve wrote:Are there, worldwide stallions of each of the three founding sirelines still standing at stud/active? I thought the breed as a whole seemed to have neglected the Byerley line with most stallions either direct male descendants of the Godolphin and Darley lines.
I wonder how much real genetic diversity is left in the breed as a whole, I think if we went by DNA genotyping the breed would be far more inbred than even just going by pedigree.
If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?
Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.
Manhattan Cafe, Tagula, Mizzen Mast, Aikenite, Skipshot, Musketier, Network, Lauro, Balko, Robin des Champs, among many others.
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Flanders
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Sat May 19, 2018 8:07 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:
Flanders wrote:
ThreeMustangs wrote: If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?
Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.
Manhattan Cafe, Tagula, Mizzen Mast, Aikenite, Skipshot, Musketier, Network, Lauro, Balko, Robin des Champs, among many others.
Ok so from your list there is one US based stallion that people actually use, Mizzen Mast. But he is 20 years old and has no heir apparent as his 3 sons at stud have zero stakes winners between them.
Manhattan Cafe was the only other one of that list that was successful, he stood in Japan and died in 2015. I think the rest of them have 1 stakes winner amongst them. That was what I meant by or at least none that anyone would use. Breeders flock to the hot lines and when someone, for example Calumet, tries to bring in outcross stallions breeders don't use them. If there are outcrosses and no one uses them, its pointless.
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Treve
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Sat May 19, 2018 8:32 pm

It's the result of breeding for sales almost becoming its own business, I'm guessing. Using outcrosses at this point has to be a long term plan that has no quick return.
(And that's not exactly new or anything, but I suppose that's the long term impact of racing becoming a real business rather than just primarily a hobby for the rich and noble).
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
tachyon
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:52 pm

Sat May 19, 2018 8:47 pm

Flanders wrote:
ThreeMustangs wrote:
Treve wrote:Are there, worldwide stallions of each of the three founding sirelines still standing at stud/active? I thought the breed as a whole seemed to have neglected the Byerley line with most stallions either direct male descendants of the Godolphin and Darley lines.
I wonder how much real genetic diversity is left in the breed as a whole, I think if we went by DNA genotyping the breed would be far more inbred than even just going by pedigree.
If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?
Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.
Hat Trick(JPN)

http://www.pedigreequery.com/hat+trick6
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Miss Woodford
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Sat May 19, 2018 9:52 pm

Flanders wrote:
Miss Woodford wrote:
Flanders wrote: Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.
Manhattan Cafe, Tagula, Mizzen Mast, Aikenite, Skipshot, Musketier, Network, Lauro, Balko, Robin des Champs, among many others.
Ok so from your list there is one US based stallion that people actually use, Mizzen Mast. But he is 20 years old and has no heir apparent as his 3 sons at stud have zero stakes winners between them.
Manhattan Cafe was the only other one of that list that was successful, he stood in Japan and died in 2015. I think the rest of them have 1 stakes winner amongst them. That was what I meant by or at least none that anyone would use. Breeders flock to the hot lines and when someone, for example Calumet, tries to bring in outcross stallions breeders don't use them. If there are outcrosses and no one uses them, its pointless.
Tagula has in fact been on the leading sire lists in the UK & Ireland multiple times, he sired champions Canford Cliffs and Limato.
Network is a top sire of steeplechasers, including the legendary Sprinter Sacre, and has a young stallion son in France named Voiladenuo who has covered more than 80 mares in his first two seasons at stud
Balko is also a popular jumps sire in France and has sired G1 winners Balko des Flos and Gitane du Berlais.
Robin des Champs, a leading NH stallion in the UK & Ireland, sired the great champion mare Quevega and several other G1 winners over jumps. His most promising stallion son in Cokoriko, who covered 124 mares last season.
Robin des Champs also has IMO the ideal Thoroughbred conformation
Image

Bottom line: yes there are still stallions from outcross pedigrees, they're just mostly used to produce stayers and steeplechasers so they are ignored by American breeders and by the "big" stud farms.
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Treve
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Sun May 20, 2018 3:34 pm

He's gorgeous.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
BaroqueAgain1
Posts: 9724
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm

Sun May 20, 2018 5:02 pm

You're right, Miss W. RdC looks perfect, right down to the one lucky white foot. :o :D
With his little star, that's about as much white as I like to see on a horse.
Beautiful, fine head, long elegant neck, strong body, clean legs (that I can see) and he's so dappled, even his dapples have dapples. :lol:
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun May 20, 2018 6:25 pm

Robin des Champs is stunning. If I was wealthy, I'd experiment with breeding some fast American mares to him, but such will never the the case except in my fantasies.
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Treve
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Sun May 20, 2018 7:45 pm

He has a similarly well balanced and perfectly constructed confo to American Pharoah who remains one of my favourite physical specimens.
Main difference is Robin des Champs has a prettier neck, it being longer gives him a very elegant and regal head set.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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mariasmon
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Thu May 31, 2018 12:46 am

Classic Empire

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mariasmon
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Thu May 31, 2018 12:47 am

Practical Joke

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Treve
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Thu May 31, 2018 12:47 am

You beat me to it mm was just about to come here and post Classic Empire's :lol:
Thanks!
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
BaroqueAgain1
Posts: 9724
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm

Thu May 31, 2018 1:58 am

That's a heck of a set of hindquarters on Practical Joke. Looks like a sprinter/miler type for sure.
Not in love with Classic Empire. Can't put my finger on exactly why...his parts just don't seem to create a harmonious whole to my eyes. :?
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Treve
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Thu May 31, 2018 2:53 am

He looks exactly like other PotNs from the neck back, however he has a slightly smaller chest than pharoah and is longer necked with very little muscling which I think gives the impression of being slightly ewe-necked. And yet at the same time his neck looks low-set. Try covering his head/first half of his neck. Love his legs and angles, the classic PotN stamp of his wide shoulder, strong hip.

I like Practical Joke's engine, I don't like his loin or his back though. I think he's slightly more downhill than I'd like and his body seems weirdly long. Like his front doesn't go with his middle doesn't go with his hind end. (I do like his chest though)
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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mariasmon
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Thu May 31, 2018 11:50 am

Churchill (IRE)

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BaroqueAgain1
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Thu May 31, 2018 3:07 pm

Churchill is pretty gorgeous. Except that front left leg looks odd. Is he over at the knee? :?
carole
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Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:47 am

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Churchill is pretty gorgeous. Except that front left leg looks odd. Is he over at the knee? :?
It looks to me like he was moving that leg forward
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Treve
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Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:49 pm

He's a little over at the knee, you can tell by both front legs, they both have slightly off angles. (Neither leg is properly aligned from the top through the knee to the pasterns and the feet). But since being over at the knee can be the result of the stress of racing and training it isn't necessarily a big deal/genetic.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
tachyon
Posts: 3446
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:52 pm

Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:05 am

Just a Way(JPN) (Heart's Cry) -- I'm not sure if this photo had already been posted here....

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standing at Shadai Stallion Station
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