New Conformation Photos

Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Flanders » Sat May 19, 2018 5:15 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Treve wrote:Are there, worldwide stallions of each of the three founding sirelines still standing at stud/active? I thought the breed as a whole seemed to have neglected the Byerley line with most stallions either direct male descendants of the Godolphin and Darley lines.
I wonder how much real genetic diversity is left in the breed as a whole, I think if we went by DNA genotyping the breed would be far more inbred than even just going by pedigree.


If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?

Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Miss Woodford » Sat May 19, 2018 7:00 pm

Flanders wrote:
ThreeMustangs wrote:
Treve wrote:Are there, worldwide stallions of each of the three founding sirelines still standing at stud/active? I thought the breed as a whole seemed to have neglected the Byerley line with most stallions either direct male descendants of the Godolphin and Darley lines.
I wonder how much real genetic diversity is left in the breed as a whole, I think if we went by DNA genotyping the breed would be far more inbred than even just going by pedigree.


If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?

Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.

Manhattan Cafe, Tagula, Mizzen Mast, Aikenite, Skipshot, Musketier, Network, Lauro, Balko, Robin des Champs, among many others.
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Flanders » Sat May 19, 2018 8:07 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:
Flanders wrote:
ThreeMustangs wrote:If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?

Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.

Manhattan Cafe, Tagula, Mizzen Mast, Aikenite, Skipshot, Musketier, Network, Lauro, Balko, Robin des Champs, among many others.

Ok so from your list there is one US based stallion that people actually use, Mizzen Mast. But he is 20 years old and has no heir apparent as his 3 sons at stud have zero stakes winners between them.
Manhattan Cafe was the only other one of that list that was successful, he stood in Japan and died in 2015. I think the rest of them have 1 stakes winner amongst them. That was what I meant by or at least none that anyone would use. Breeders flock to the hot lines and when someone, for example Calumet, tries to bring in outcross stallions breeders don't use them. If there are outcrosses and no one uses them, its pointless.
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Treve » Sat May 19, 2018 8:32 pm

It's the result of breeding for sales almost becoming its own business, I'm guessing. Using outcrosses at this point has to be a long term plan that has no quick return.
(And that's not exactly new or anything, but I suppose that's the long term impact of racing becoming a real business rather than just primarily a hobby for the rich and noble).
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby tachyon » Sat May 19, 2018 8:47 pm

Flanders wrote:
ThreeMustangs wrote:
Treve wrote:Are there, worldwide stallions of each of the three founding sirelines still standing at stud/active? I thought the breed as a whole seemed to have neglected the Byerley line with most stallions either direct male descendants of the Godolphin and Darley lines.
I wonder how much real genetic diversity is left in the breed as a whole, I think if we went by DNA genotyping the breed would be far more inbred than even just going by pedigree.


If I counted right, Justify has TEN crosses of Native Dancer. Doesn’t that seem like a lot?

Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.


Hat Trick(JPN)

http://www.pedigreequery.com/hat+trick6
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Miss Woodford » Sat May 19, 2018 9:52 pm

Flanders wrote:
Miss Woodford wrote:
Flanders wrote:Of course it seems like a lot but there are no true outcrosses anymore or at least none that anyone would use. I would imagine it is close to impossible to find a horse that doesn't have either Mr. Prospector or Northern Dancer in its pedigree somewhere.

Manhattan Cafe, Tagula, Mizzen Mast, Aikenite, Skipshot, Musketier, Network, Lauro, Balko, Robin des Champs, among many others.

Ok so from your list there is one US based stallion that people actually use, Mizzen Mast. But he is 20 years old and has no heir apparent as his 3 sons at stud have zero stakes winners between them.
Manhattan Cafe was the only other one of that list that was successful, he stood in Japan and died in 2015. I think the rest of them have 1 stakes winner amongst them. That was what I meant by or at least none that anyone would use. Breeders flock to the hot lines and when someone, for example Calumet, tries to bring in outcross stallions breeders don't use them. If there are outcrosses and no one uses them, its pointless.

Tagula has in fact been on the leading sire lists in the UK & Ireland multiple times, he sired champions Canford Cliffs and Limato.
Network is a top sire of steeplechasers, including the legendary Sprinter Sacre, and has a young stallion son in France named Voiladenuo who has covered more than 80 mares in his first two seasons at stud
Balko is also a popular jumps sire in France and has sired G1 winners Balko des Flos and Gitane du Berlais.
Robin des Champs, a leading NH stallion in the UK & Ireland, sired the great champion mare Quevega and several other G1 winners over jumps. His most promising stallion son in Cokoriko, who covered 124 mares last season.
Robin des Champs also has IMO the ideal Thoroughbred conformation
Image

Bottom line: yes there are still stallions from outcross pedigrees, they're just mostly used to produce stayers and steeplechasers so they are ignored by American breeders and by the "big" stud farms.
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Treve » Sun May 20, 2018 3:34 pm

He's gorgeous.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby BaroqueAgain1 » Sun May 20, 2018 5:02 pm

You're right, Miss W. RdC looks perfect, right down to the one lucky white foot. :o :D
With his little star, that's about as much white as I like to see on a horse.
Beautiful, fine head, long elegant neck, strong body, clean legs (that I can see) and he's so dappled, even his dapples have dapples. :lol:
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Ridan_Remembered » Sun May 20, 2018 6:25 pm

Robin des Champs is stunning. If I was wealthy, I'd experiment with breeding some fast American mares to him, but such will never the the case except in my fantasies.
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Re: New Conformation Photos

Postby Treve » Sun May 20, 2018 7:45 pm

He has a similarly well balanced and perfectly constructed confo to American Pharoah who remains one of my favourite physical specimens.
Main difference is Robin des Champs has a prettier neck, it being longer gives him a very elegant and regal head set.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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