Stallion News

lurkey mclurker
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Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:03 pm

Northport wrote:Give Maurice a year or two to grow out his mane and I think he will blow Kizuna and Orfevre out of the water. :lol:
Good point LOL :lol: There's a reason why the Aussies call him the Beast From the East!
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Treve
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:29 am

Izvestia wrote:
Northport wrote:Has there even been this much buzz for a freshman stallion who raced 5 times, won 2 G2s, and retired after an injury while prepping for the Kentucky Derby? Whose fee has been almost tripled before his first progeny even hit the track?

That's only partly a rhetorical question, I'd be interested if anyone does recall when a horse with a relatively modest (ie. no G1 wins) track record, decent pedigree (though POTN blew up after Cairo Prince stood his first season), standing for a not really eye watering sum.

I know Danzig, Malibu Moon, etc. barely raced before they were retired to stud, but where people as excited about their first crops as we're seeing with Cairo Prince?

Idk, I've just been following Cairo Prince for a few years now, and it's fascinating how there has been so much hype from everyone involved with him. I'm really excited for his first crop to hit the track.

Since Danzig and Malibu Moon were freshmen, the industry has changed. I think it’s noteworthy that people are so attracted to him because he’s not getting super early horses, but is expected to have later developers. Or mid-range developers.
Let’s face it - he was very talented and we never really got to see what he was made of. He’s a mystery in that regard.
I think that's part of the excitement, the mystery. Add to that the Triple Crown Fairy Dust from Pharoah, followed up with Classic Empire's undefeated Champion juvenile season (-the antics in the Hopeful) showing that PotN could be some kind of sire. Then when his foals started hitting the ground they got a lot of good comments, and his yearlings were so well received. That his yearlings are so consistent and impressive in spite of probably being mid-range/later developers probably just adds to the anticipation. With the recent loss of Holy Bull I'm doubly rooting for Cairo Prince. It's even more exciting to consider that this first crop was what 10k a pop? And the quality of mares he's gotten has only increased in the following crops.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
Izvestia
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:04 am

I’m a super fan of the sire line through Unbridled, and I am always rooting for them to do well.
Interesting that we’ve got two of them this year that have done so well from Unbridled/Fappiano in Will Take Charge and Cairo Prince. Both are big, strapping individuals who will have late developers that go a distance. I can’t wait to see how they do!
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Ridan_Remembered
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:42 pm

Take Charge Indy is the #1 second crop sire in North America by a wide margin so far in 2018. https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... econd-crop

So unfortunate that he was sold before his first crop hit the races. Supposedly his first foals to hit the sales a couple of years ago were not very well received. Seems like Sunday Silence redux at this point. I hope that TCI at least gets some quality mares over in Korea.
Izvestia
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:31 pm

I knew that would happen!!!
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sweettalk
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:44 pm

why are we so quick to give up on stallions?
Get out to Lenny’s for their big grand opening sale. Find eight government secrets and get a free kidnapping and personality reassignment so that you’ll forget you found them!
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Northport
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Location: probably near the food

Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:50 pm

sweettalk wrote:why are we so quick to give up on stallions?
Idk if it is "we" or more specifically WinStar, Spendthrift, and *sometimes* Coolmore. WinStar seems to be the worst, but just don't like their business model in general. Stay tuned for Fed Biz, Daredevil, and Overanalyze to be sold by the end of 2019.
weeeeeeeee
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:20 am

Were Tiz Wonderful and Colonel John also Winstar stallions? If so, between those two and Take Charge Indy, they definitely make my Stallion Shuffle S#itlist. :evil:
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Treve
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:41 am

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Were Tiz Wonderful and Colonel John also Winstar stallions? If so, between those two and Take Charge Indy, they definitely make my Stallion Shuffle S#itlist. :evil:
Tiz Wonderful was B. Wayne Hughes and Stonestreet Stables
Colonel John was WinStar

I believe in the case of Take Charge Indy the situation was slightly different - whilst he was not super well received here, the KRA approached WinStar rather than the other way around. And apparently made an offer that was "too good to pass up".

I do think the "we" wasn't far off considering, if breeders and buyers had been a little more patient, WinStar might not have felt pressured to "owe it to their shareholders" to take such an offer.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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sweettalk
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:41 am

i wasnt gonna try to nitpick and specifically list the farms that seem to be a barn of revolving doors. "we" was a lot shorter. ;)
Get out to Lenny’s for their big grand opening sale. Find eight government secrets and get a free kidnapping and personality reassignment so that you’ll forget you found them!
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Flanders
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:08 am

Stallions are almost always owned by syndicates, if the majority of shareholders vote don't sell then I can't see how they can sell them. Of course some shareholders may have signed papers to allow the syndicate manager to make the decision for them.

The vast majority of stallions that go to stud in Kentucky are not going to stay there. It would be interesting to see numbers on the amount of stallions that went to stud in Kentucky over a 5 year span, that have foals of racing age, and where they are standing now. I would imagine the amount that are still in Kentucky is well under 10%. Maybe if I get really bored sometime I will try and do this.

In Take Charge Indy's case they do have a buyback clause if he turned out to be successful. Maybe they will exercise it and bring him back to the United States in the future?
Treve wrote: I believe in the case of Take Charge Indy the situation was slightly different - whilst he was not super well received here, the KRA approached WinStar rather than the other way around. And apparently made an offer that was "too good to pass up".
I think that was the case with Colonel John and Tiz Wonderful as well.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:17 am

I feel like I'm seeing a fair number of winners by Tiz Wonderful; I know the UAE Oaks winner, Rayya, is by him.
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Flanders
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:16 am

Flanders wrote:The vast majority of stallions that go to stud in Kentucky are not going to stay there. It would be interesting to see numbers on the amount of stallions that went to stud in Kentucky over a 5 year span, that have foals of racing age, and where they are standing now. I would imagine the amount that are still in Kentucky is well under 10%.
I just ran some quick numbers, its probably not 100% accurate as I was using the First crop sire list of the specific year and then looking at where stallions are now based on the stallion register.

I accidentally did 6 years instead of 5, but for stallions whose first year at stud was from 2007-2012:
138 stallions started stud in Kentucky and at least 12 died while they were still at stud in Kentucky, so I removed them from my calculations completely because besides Scat Daddy, I have no idea where they would be now.

32 of the remaining 126 are still in Kentucky for a 25% retention rate. This number was really surprising to me. There were some exceptionally strong stallion crops during a few years and one year that was really bad.

Here is the information: (first year at stud, # of stallions in Kentucky, # that started in Kentucky)
2007: 4 out of 23
2008: 4 out of 24 (an additional 6 stallions died while at stud in Kentucky, not included in total)
2009: 6 out of 25 (two additional stallions died, not included)
2010: 1 out of 16 (one additional stallion died, not included)
2011: 11 out of 18 (one additional stallion died, not included)
2012: 6 out of 20 (two additional stallions died, not included)
Last edited by Flanders on Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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sweettalk
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:14 am

how many of those left KY but stayed stateside?
Get out to Lenny’s for their big grand opening sale. Find eight government secrets and get a free kidnapping and personality reassignment so that you’ll forget you found them!
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Flanders
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 am

sweettalk wrote:how many of those left KY but stayed stateside?
I tried, found 5 more stallions that died while standing in Kentucky so adjusted the above.

total - 138
died - 18 (4 of these died in foreign countries, 2 while shuttling)
pensioned - 3
still in Kentucky - 32
still in US(outside Kentucky) - 27
Foreign Countries - 51 (I'm guessing that Artie Schiller and Istan stayed where ever they shuttle to, so I added them here, 2018 was the first time they didn't return to Kentucky)
Unknown - 7 - they have no death report, no exports and no mares bred for a number of years
Last edited by Flanders on Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:05 am

@Flanders, thanks so much for your research. The numbers are very interesting. When combined with stats from the top end of the stallion market, where only a small number of stallions are getting large books of mares, it seems to me breeders are squeezing the North American gene pool into a relatively narrow spectrum. Maybe I'm overreacting to the numbers?

As for Take Charge Indy, I would love to see him brought back to the states if there is a buyback clause. The commercial market is not always right about a stallion, as we've seen before.
mosieposie12
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:34 pm

Decided to have a little fun with stallions that start at the big stud farms and are either sold or move to a different state. Started with Bluegrass Cat and plan on analyzing all WinStar stallions that have been sold or moved in the past 10 years.


Bluegrass Cat (Storm Cat x She's A Winner by A. P. Indy)
Bay Horse
(11: 5-4-0) $1,761,280 MGSW & MGSP
Stood at WinStar Farm, KY
2007-$50,000 (148) Mares Bred
2008-$50,000 (125)
2009-$40,000 (133)
2010-$25,000 (147)
2011-$25,000 (149)
Stood at Vinery, NY
2012-$17,500 (118)
2013-$15,000 (65)
Stood at Rockridge Farm, NY
2014-$7,500 (58)
Stands at Ballena Vista Farm, CA
2015-$6,500 (70)
2016-$6,500 (58)
2017-$7,500 (39)
2018-$7,500

Entered Stud: 2007
Foals of Racing Age: 727
GSW: 6
Blacktype Winners: 32
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ThreeMustangs
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:13 pm

Isn't it a little odd to change farms in the middle of breeding season?

Shaman Ghost Relocated to Lovacres Ranch

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... ium=social
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Ioya Two
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:30 pm

Yes. More like they're probably not getting either the kind of mares or the quantity they want at 10k so they're forced to drop him a notch. Definitely more to this story.
Pulpit 1994-2012
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Northport
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:37 pm

Odd is definitely the first word that comes to mind when I think of Shaman Ghost's stallion career. The whole idea of standing him as part of 'revitalizing' the industry in California seems like a drop in the bucket, even more so now that he has been relocated and his fee has been cut. The whole Stronach wanting to sell his main Kentucky farm and move some assets to California thing seems... ill advised. But, it's his money and he does have the best intentions for the industry.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if he builds his own stallion station in Cali, like he did a few years after he brought stallions back to Ontario.
weeeeeeeee
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