Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby bare it all » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:52 am

So this colt has danced a lot of dances and is still chugging along. Knock on wood, but he hasn't been sidelined with any of the major maladies that normally hit the UBS offspring. What is the difference with him physically that has made the difference? How does he physically look compared to UBS or Dehere (dam sire)? Is it his training and racing regimen? I'm genuinely curios because he seems an anomaly of his sire.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby BaroqueAgain1 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:52 pm

In some ways, WTC looks like other UBS colts...big, strong and with a noticeable blaze. When I look at his chestnut coat, I am also reminded that Dehere was out of a Secretariat mare, and that Take Charge Lady was a pretty durable, really good race mare.
Maybe WTC takes after his female line more than his sire line?
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Izvestia » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:10 pm

He wasn't terribly precocious, I think he wasn't pushed super hard as a 2-year-old, although he danced all the dances at 3. Soundness from dam side. He looks like a big, burly horse.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Ridan_Remembered » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:44 am

I don't want to think of unsoundness and Will. Aside from never-proven rumors of drug use on horses, the one knock on Wayne Lukas as a trainer is that too many of his horses tended to break down. The list is a long one.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Acadiana » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:57 am

He only ran 4 times as a 2 year old and didn't start until August. Plus, he looks pretty solid boned and correct. That doesn't hurt either.

I personally think the UBS "unsoundness" is based more on the fact that he tends to throw fast babies that are big gangly things as 2 year olds. They get run hard/early are 2 year olds, when waiting to grow into themselves would probably be better for them, because they're fast enough to win. The smaller, quicker to mature/balance horses seem to tend to be sounder to run early.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Indianapolis » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:55 pm

Is there any statistical evidence that UBS's are unsound? It seems like his runners are no more unsound than any other stallion.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Flanders » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:20 pm

Indianapolis wrote:Is there any statistical evidence that UBS's are unsound? It seems like his runners are no more unsound than any other stallion.

I just ran the numbers, his starters average 11.44 starts. Storm Cat was the closest I looked at with 12.10 starts per starter. I just mainly looked at older or retired stallions, almost all were in the 13 to 16 start range per starter. I did this because if a stallion doesn't have many crops yet, they really haven't gotten a chance to race that many times and that is going to skew the numbers. However, I did run these, Tapit - 12.94, Street Cry - 11.96, Medaglia D'Oro - 10.64, War Front -10.28, Bernardini - 7.98.

Unbridled's Song also gets about 73% starters to foals of racing age, that is a solid number.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby sweettalk » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:25 pm

Indianapolis wrote:Is there any statistical evidence that UBS's are unsound? It seems like his runners are no more unsound than any other stallion.

i've read (but not seen any facts to back this claim) that UBS was unsound via unbridled, something to do with fappiano. but like i said, i haven't seen anything backing that, just stating it.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Flanders » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:43 pm

sweettalk wrote:
Indianapolis wrote:Is there any statistical evidence that UBS's are unsound? It seems like his runners are no more unsound than any other stallion.

i've read (but not seen any facts to back this claim) that UBS was unsound via unbridled, something to do with fappiano. but like i said, i haven't seen anything backing that, just stating it.

I ran the other Unbridled sons that I could find stats for, except for Empire Maker, they all seem to have about what I've been finding to be the normal amount of starts per starter:
Broken Vow - 16.39
Eddington - 13.85
Empire Maker - 10.43
Free Thinking - 14.09
Mustanfar - 17.70

And a son of Fappiano, he is actually the highest that I've found so far:
Quiet American - 19.73
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby BaroqueAgain1 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:57 pm

While starts-per-offspring might provides clues about whether the bloodline is intrinsically unsound, a factor that might skew those figures is if the horses were retired early for reasons having little to do with unsoundness. For example, Empire Maker is a pretty hot sire, and some of his stakes-winning sons and daughters might be heading to the shed ASAP.
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