Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Flanders » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:19 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:While starts-per-offspring might provides clues about whether the bloodline is intrinsically unsound, a factor that might skew those figures is if the horses were retired early for reasons having little to do with unsoundness. For example, Empire Maker is a pretty hot sire, and some of his stakes-winning sons and daughters might be heading to the shed ASAP.

Yes I know. But it isn't just Empire Maker who has foals retired early because of pedigree and ability. He also really only had 6 crops (aged 3 and up) with which to judge him by. That is why, in my previous post, I said its hard to judge stallions without many crops of racing age by average starts per starter.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby swale1984 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:15 am

I've always thought, if anything, UBS tended to throw his own weak front legs to his progeny. I did some digging and found this rather scathing review of his shortcomings as a sire.

http://www.reines-de-course.com/unbridled's_song.htm
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby BaroqueAgain1 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:04 am

Interesting article, although it didn't completely throw UBS under the breeding bus. The author pointed out the success he had when the mares had a sturdy bloodline to offset his fragility.
I do remember that season when Old Fashioned started what seemed like a constant drumbeat of UBS colts exiting the racing scene due to injuries. Too bad more bloodstock managers didn't try harder to find those "big, broad, good-boned matron with some substance to her" mares to send to him.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby mariasmon » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:10 am

I haven't seen Take Charge Lady since her racing days, but I don't recall her being a "big, broad, good-boned matron with some substance to her." She is average sized, but refined and a bit fine-boned. I think Take Charge Indy resembles her strongly and, although he matured, I found him very feminine as a yearling. In fact, I remembered him as a filly 'til he started racing.

Will Take Charge looks more like UBS. That's obviously where he got his size. Obviously there were at least some minor issues with both him and TCI, or they would've sold for a lot more as yearlings.

I don't know who the hell TCL's first foal, Charming, looks like. She's a big, strong, good looking thing and was as a yearling. She might be more of a chestnut version of her sire, Seeking the Gold.

Here's a pic of her Storm Cat daughter, Elarose (9 starts, never broke maiden): http://finalturngallery.com/g2/main.php ... filly2.jpg

I guess my point is, the mare has been bred to quite a few different stallions and it appears that more of her offspring take after their sires, with TCI being the one who resembles her most, along with the Indian Charlie 2YO filly. TCL was a durable racemare, despite the fact that she wasn't a broad, big-boned type. It seems she has passed that on to WTC. You would generally think of A.P. Indy's offspring as a bit more durable than UBS's, yet it was TCI who had more soundness issues. Charming lasted just 2 races before being retired with injury.

It took WTC some time to come into his own, but he's withstood the rigorous D. Wayne Lukas program and even thrived in it, even though he is huge and was obviously still quite immature throughout the TC trail. Does that disprove the theory in the article?
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby swale1984 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:43 am

Could it be that WTC has just managed to win the genetic lottery and gotten the best of both parents? Maybe there was enough correctness in TCL to balance out the incorrectness from UBS.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby serenassong » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:54 am

swale1984 wrote:Could it be that WTC has just managed to win the genetic lottery and gotten the best of both parents? Maybe there was enough correctness in TCL to balance out the incorrectness from UBS.


Could be the case. Interesting to read all the takes on this. On a personal note, I would love to found out what the problem with Night and Day was. She was a beautiful looking horse(and still is) from the day I saw the first pic of her as a foal. I really believed that she was going to be Serena's shining star in her broodie career- runs once and retired not soon after. Something was really amiss for that to happen- not sure if it was the run or something that happened at the barn. I look forward to seeing her babies run- just posted pics of her 2014 More than Ready in the Breeding section.
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Calypso » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:10 am

swale1984 wrote:Could it be that WTC has just managed to win the genetic lottery and gotten the best of both parents? Maybe there was enough correctness in TCL to balance out the incorrectness from UBS.


Either that or he takes after one of his grandparents. How were Unbridled and Dehere on the soundness scales?
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Re: Will Take Charge & the UBS "unsoundness"

Postby Izvestia » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:08 am

Unbridled was big-boned, rangy, ran 24 times from 2-4.
Dehere is finer-boned (danty), precocious, ran 9 times and retired after his win in the Fountain of Youth.

I'd say WTC takes after Unbridled's side of the family.
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