2018 Royal Ascot

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Le Beau Bai
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:48 am

ITV reporting he’s came back mildly lame and has a puncture wound. He’s with the vet who is currently flushing the wound.

RE the start - the jockey shouted okay to the starter as he hadn’t realised he had a hindleg up on the boards.
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barbaro111
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:14 pm

Le Beau Bai wrote:ITV reporting he’s came back mildly lame and has a puncture wound. He’s with the vet who is currently flushing the wound.

RE the start - the jockey shouted okay to the starter as he hadn’t realised he had a hindleg up on the boards.

shouldn't the starters make the decision whether the horse can go or not?? i would think they should
stark
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:15 pm

With reference to our Kentucky Derby that fills with 20 entries, many are criticized for being no-hopers.....

Geesh, how many no-hopers are there in some of these races, seems like half the field doesn't belong, no?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Le Beau Bai
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:20 pm

barbaro111 wrote:
Le Beau Bai wrote:ITV reporting he’s came back mildly lame and has a puncture wound. He’s with the vet who is currently flushing the wound.

RE the start - the jockey shouted okay to the starter as he hadn’t realised he had a hindleg up on the boards.

shouldn't the starters make the decision whether the horse can go or not?? i would think they should
The jockeys offer guidance in cases when the horse gets upset. It’s not unusual to hear a jockey yelling ‘no’ or ‘wait’ when a horse isn’t quite set. Remember we don’t have stalls handlers to make sure the horse is looking ahead etc.

Similarly the starter will yell “blinds” to tell them to remove blindfolds just before the break.
Formally ELPHIE!
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ThreeMustangs
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:56 pm

Damn, how tall is Pallasator?
luvsgeldings
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:02 pm

feel so badly for that poor horse whose leg was hung up on the board in the gate - no one behind the gate could see that horse only had 3 legs on the ground? and the jockey couldn't tell the horse was not right while he was in the stall? egads.

I might be wrong, but I think here in the states the starters don't spring the gate until they see all 4 legs of the horses are settled. of course, we don't have the field sizes they get at ascot. but I thought I had heard the starters here keep an eye on the horses legs - surely someone would notice a horse with only 3 legs down on the ground.

in any case, its a shame for that horse and I hope he is ok.
barbaro111
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:04 pm

luvsgeldings wrote:feel so badly for that poor horse whose leg was hung up on the board in the gate - no one behind the gate could see that horse only had 3 legs on the ground? and the jockey couldn't tell the horse was not right while he was in the stall? egads.

I might be wrong, but I think here in the states the starters don't spring the gate until they see all 4 legs of the horses are settled. of course, we don't have the field sizes they get at ascot. but I thought I had heard the starters here keep an eye on the horses legs - surely someone would notice a horse with only 3 legs down on the ground.

in any case, its a shame for that horse and I hope he is ok.
that was one of the worst incidents i have ever seen occur in the gate -- and letting the gates open--- OMG- I am worried about that poor horse.
luvsgeldings
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:19 pm

it was awful.... the way that horses leg was folded up and pinned up on that board - and so high up like that - the overhead shot of him in the gate, it looked like the back half of his body was twisted sideways too - that was a terrible experience for him - I can only hope we hear he is ok in the days ahead.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:42 pm

If anyone has thought that American racing should adopt British procedures for the gate, IMHO this incident with Harry Angel should throw cold water on that notion. :roll:
Harry kicked so hard and high that his hooves were above the back of the stall, and one leg got caught. In the US, that horse would have been immediately backed out of the gate and checked by a vet.
It's not like Harry has never had a problem at the gate; he was wearing a Monty Roberts blanket AND a blindfold. He clearly has issues.
I feel like the starter just shrugged and wrote off the horse, since he was causing his own problems. So he let the race go before anyone else acted up, although someone else reared completely in the air at the start.
I'm sorry...although not surprised...to read that Harry was injured. His connections should be furious with the starter, and so should all the bettors, since IIRC he was the favorite. A lot of punters' money went down the drain because a starter wouldn't take the time to make sure that horse was OK. Sounds like he should have been scratched at the gate, which would have protected the bettors. :evil:
stark
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:59 pm

Even though the starter let 'em run, couldn't they have called an INQUIRY immediately after the race and declared him a non-starter for betting purposes?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
barbaro111
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Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:23 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:If anyone has thought that American racing should adopt British procedures for the gate, IMHO this incident with Harry Angel should throw cold water on that notion. :roll:
Harry kicked so hard and high that his hooves were above the back of the stall, and one leg got caught. In the US, that horse would have been immediately backed out of the gate and checked by a vet.
It's not like Harry has never had a problem at the gate; he was wearing a Monty Roberts blanket AND a blindfold. He clearly has issues.
I feel like the starter just shrugged and wrote off the horse, since he was causing his own problems. So he let the race go before anyone else acted up, although someone else reared completely in the air at the start.
I'm sorry...although not surprised...to read that Harry was injured. His connections should be furious with the starter, and so should all the bettors, since IIRC he was the favorite. A lot of punters' money went down the drain because a starter wouldn't take the time to make sure that horse was OK. Sounds like he should have been scratched at the gate, which would have protected the bettors. :evil:
i heard the owner (or trainer), not sure which he is, say it was nobody's fault-- oh yes it was---- that scenario would never have occurred here in the United States. This is Royal Ascot, not some brush track somewhere and even a bush track would do better than they did today. that incident could have resulted in a horse with a catastrophic injury. it is disgusting to me- they should have backed the horse out and scratched him from the race. IMO
carole
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:10 am

The jockey commented that nobody saw Harry Angel catching his leg on the starting gate and that the starter was keen to let them go because Harry Angel was fractious and was rearing to go so he wanted to send them on their way to avoid any incidents which makes perfect sense. But once again, no one saw Harry Angel catch his leg, it was an unfortunate freak accident, not human error IMO and thankfully HA came out of it relatively ok.

One incident and suddenly the starting system in Britain is dangerous? I can't begin to count how many times I've seen a horse walk into a stall and the stall doors open literally half a second later and the horse misses the break in American racing. Or the starter accidentally holding onto a horse causing it to break badly. I'm sure if they saw that Harry Angel caught his leg, they wouldn't let him go, he would be a certain vet scratch. I'm not trying to degrade American racing but this incident is a one off yet it feels like everyone is so mad about it as if this happens all the time. The starting system in Britain is fine and needs no changes in my opinion.
stark
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:14 am

Carole, I agree with everything you just wrote, but that said, I'm asking a question again.....as I think this is how it would've been handled here.
stark wrote:Even though the starter let 'em run, couldn't they have called an INQUIRY immediately after the race and declared him a non-starter for betting purposes?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:41 pm

I don't mean to impugn the whole British start process but, IMHO, this single incident could have been prevented. There were a bunch of assistants behind the gate and, when Harry kicked all the way over the back of the stall, surely the closest assistant should have known to glance below the rear of the stall and count how many feet were on the ground. :oops:
This has made me appreciate even more the work our gate crews do with their horses while inside the starting stalls.
stark
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:44 pm

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I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Sparrow Castle
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:13 pm

Harry Angel Not Certain to Defend July Cup Title
Harry Angel's defense of his Darley July Cup (G1) crown is in the balance, trainer Clive Cox said June 25, after the star sprinter was injured at Royal Ascot.

Harry Angel's chances of a first victory at Ascot in his fifth start there in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes (G1) June 23 were ruined at the start, when the favorite caught his hind leg in the stalls and set off lengths adrift of his rivals.

"He was lame when he came off the track yesterday," Cox said. "He improved overnight but was still sore this morning.

"He has a cut on his near-hind fetlock, which is deep, and on a joint. I'm relieved it's no worse than that, and not as bad as it seemed it might be when he came off the course yesterday.

"The cut will need to be managed, and we'll have to mind the potential for infection to incur. The vets have flushed it, and he'll have a quiet week, and we'll see where we are before thinking about what happens next."
More: https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... -cup-title
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Kurenai
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:11 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq8yOd_X418

Just a freak accident. Things like that happen. The explanation makes sense, they were not able to see that his leg got stuck there, cause of the blanket. Jockey gave the okay and they started.

I think it doesn't matter which system you use. Just remember Quality Road at the Breeders Cup, that one starter that held on to him deserved a gold medal and he was lucky, cause Quality Road did spin in a circle and not try to bold in a straight line.

Personally I think it's safer to have assistants in the gate, but I'd prefer if they only grab the reins in case of emergency instead of the whole time. Too many times I've seen them let go a bit to late and jerking the horses head around. And the biggest plus in safety: outriders! Don't think that ponies are such a good idea though and I prefer the Euro version of the warm up. A mixture of both would be great.
luvsgeldings
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:50 pm

interesting that you mention Quality Road in the BC here at santa anita - my husband and I were standing along the fence right next to the starting gate for that race - and let me tell you, that was the worst thing I have ever personally witnessed at the starting gate.

the sad thing about it, QR was actually quite calm as he was heading to the gate - being such a good boy, a gentleman - now when they tried to load him the first time, he hesitated - but he wasn't throwing a fit or anything - then the gate crew really started to manhandle him, like they were in a huge hurry (he was the last to load, and I am sure they wanted to get the show on the road) - but honestly, THAT was what really got him so upset - that was when all hell broke loose - and it went on forever! the horse was getting more and more worked up - it was just horrible to watch - and to hear - the banging in the gate once they got him in - that horse was in serious distress in there - the violence of his thrashing, it was heartbreaking, he was losing his mind in there! - I was seriously concerned that QR was hurting himself as he was so violently thrashing about - and then he broke thru the gate - and yes, thank God that one guy on the gate crew grabbed a hold of him - QR still had the blindfold on when he broke thru!! I cannot even think about what would have happened if that man had not grabbed him.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:59 pm

I understand that the rider couldn't see that Harry's leg was caught up on the inside of the gate. But I still believe that an assistant behind his stall could have clearly seen that all four feet weren't on the ground. It's too bad the colt was injured because of that miss.
I agree that outriders are essential for the safety of horses and riders. I've seen some amazing catches by outriders and their quick ponies, especially at Woodbine. They are also our rapid responders to spills, first on scene to aid injured horses and/or jockeys.
I'm not sure why foreign tracks almost never use them, although I suspect the huge area that some racecourses cover makes placing outriders a logistical challenge.
Japan is one jurisdiction that apparently disdains the use of outriders. I have seen loose horses run for a long time...even making multiple rounds of the whole track...before finally slowing due to exhaustion. It's a recipe for disastrous injury, IMHO. :(
luvsgeldings
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Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:07 pm

watching a replay that shows the gate guys behind Harry's gate (and there were several of them back there!!), it looked like one guy did bend over to look under the stall right before they were sent off - not sure how he missed seeing that Harry only had three legs down(?)
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