Justify/Restoring Hope...quite the duo

stark
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 pm

The Pick 6 King
‏@jonathanstettin

True Story: A great jockey was once asked “why didn’t you go to the lead like I instructed?” He said simply “I had to stay with the horse.”
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
MySaladDays
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:22 am

barbaro111 wrote:Horse racing needs a central authority- until that happens this industry will continue to be chaotic. and there is no chance that there will ever be a
horse racing commissioner--- so we can expect more of the same ---
1000% agree
luvsgeldings
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:45 am

yup, I agree too. won't happen. and that is just too bad.
peeptoad
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:38 am

pretty good take, imho:http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-belmont- ... a-was-born

this is what I alluded to in my previous post:
As much as today’s trainers and jockeys seem to enjoy the spotlight, enhancing their brands, they still operate primarily behind the scenes, and more is left unsaid in lieu of quiet understandings and business relationships. Icebergs reveal more above the waterline.
and this
In the end, at least for the wider sports world, the first turn of the 2018 Belmont Stakes will eventually fade into the background, leaving only sour grapes. That’s too bad, because Justify deserved a clean deal, with no strings attached, and nothing but the memory of a gorgeous red colt standing tall atop a reinvigorated Triple Crown.
...and I also agree on the sport needing a central authority and/or racing commissioner.
Catalina
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:04 am

peeptoad wrote:pretty good take, imho:http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-belmont- ... a-was-born

this is what I alluded to in my previous post:
As much as today’s trainers and jockeys seem to enjoy the spotlight, enhancing their brands, they still operate primarily behind the scenes, and more is left unsaid in lieu of quiet understandings and business relationships. Icebergs reveal more above the waterline.
and this
In the end, at least for the wider sports world, the first turn of the 2018 Belmont Stakes will eventually fade into the background, leaving only sour grapes. That’s too bad, because Justify deserved a clean deal, with no strings attached, and nothing but the memory of a gorgeous red colt standing tall atop a reinvigorated Triple Crown.
...and I also agree on the sport needing a central authority and/or racing commissioner.
Very well written piece.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:06 am

luvsgeldings wrote:yup, I agree too. won't happen. and that is just too bad.
MySaladDays wrote:
barbaro111 wrote:Horse racing needs a central authority- until that happens this industry will continue to be chaotic. and there is no chance that there will ever be a
horse racing commissioner--- so we can expect more of the same ---
1000% agree
Lets just close our eyes for a minute and pretend that there really is a headmistress elected into the national position.

With all the power, what specifically do you suppose she would have done in this situation before the race? After the race?

thanks
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:30 am

I have look this thing over and now believe the Russian set it up for Justify to win the T.C. :roll:
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:02 am

stark wrote:The Pick 6 King
‏@jonathanstettin

True Story: A great jockey was once asked “why didn’t you go to the lead like I instructed?” He said simply “I had to stay with the horse.”
Saw this year ago at Remington park jockey came off of horse a few feet from wire he past the wire with arms around horses heck and feet off the ground he still won because he did not hit ground before the wire :lol:
barbaro111
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:16 pm

First of all, all top sports have a commissioner--- or a central authority. I guess horse racing doesn't want to be included in that group.
If there was a commissioner, there would be policies and protocols that would govern situations like the one that occurred on Belmont Day, that is to say
an allegation of alleged interference. Protocol would have required the complainant to make that complaint immediately following the race; then there would no doubt be a committee that would review the video, written protocol and would be guided by those elements. What you had in this situation is an allegation that was not immediately made after the race; instead Repole went to the media and stated he wanted the situation investigated but i don't think he actually filed a complaint with the stewards. In as much as corporate ownership of several horses with one trainer may become more commonplace, there would have to be rules and protocol to deal with such a situation. For example, coupling in that situation could be required ..

As an example, let's say there is a question of a dirty hit in the NHL. The video goes to a committee; they interview each of the parties involved and make a decision if that was in fact a dirty hit or not; it they deem it was, they then mete out punishment. There might a suspension- how long would the suspension be or a fine, or both. They are guided by rules of the game, protocol and then they have use judgement based on various factors.

Why is the horse industry so resistant to the idea of a commissioner or central authority- it would certainly make the sport consistent from venue to venue with medications and so forth.

Whether we believe there was interference during the Belmont that helped the winner is a matter of opinion; the problem is that this situation became very visible to mainstream and gives people who already think the game is fixed, another reason to see what they believe is a corrupt industry.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:29 pm

12-18-17 Notice
The Directive on Commission-Sanctioned Thresholds was eliminated 12-18-17 with Gov. Fallin's approval of the proposed emergency rule amendments to Chapter 45

Our main office has moved to: 2800 N Lincoln Blvd, Suite 220, Oklahoma City, OK 73105
Our Mission
The Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission encourages agriculture, the breeding of horses, the growth, sustenance and development of live racing, and generates public revenue through the forceful control, regulation, implementation and enforcement of Commission-licensed horse racing and gaming.

Our website is under construction.

LOOKS LIKE EACH STATE HAS TO HAVE IT OWN--- NO FEDERAL CONTROL SO CHECK OWN STATE, I KNOW THERE ONE IN NEW YORK. ARE DO YOU WONT TRUMP IN CHARGE?
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:37 pm

WHAT MOST OF YOU ARE ASKING FOR IS A NATION WIDE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE :( THAT WOULD BE TO MUCH CONTROL :x :x BUT IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED THEN ASK TRUMP TO APPOINT ME TO REVIEW ALL RACES AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO HOLD TICKET UNTIL I SAY THIS IS HOW IT RAN. :P :P :P :P :P
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Katewerk
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:39 pm

BigDonOKC wrote:WHAT MOST OF YOU ARE ASKING FOR IS A NATION WIDE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE :( THAT WOULD BE TO MUCH CONTROL :x :x BUT IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED THEN ASK TRUMP TO APPOINT ME TO REVIEW ALL RACES AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO HOLD TICKET UNTIL I SAY THIS IS HOW IT RAN. :P :P :P :P :P
Yes folks, be careful what you wish for...
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:47 pm

barbaro111 wrote:First of all, all top sports have a commissioner--- or a central authority. I guess horse racing doesn't want to be included in that group.
Thanks Barbaro for the reply, much appreciated.

My main concern would be giving up too much for what is received in return.
This central authority would have to enter into the position without bias.
The breeding industry is a top priority.
The gambling public is a top priority.
The horse owners are a top priority.
This commissioner would have to get NYRA + Churchill + CHRB + Frank + the farms + the people at large all on the same page. IMHO, that's well beyond blue sky thinking.

All I can think of is some government agency in WashingtonDC making up rules for us to live by, please spare me.

We touched on this topic in a dedicated thread a while back and my assumption was that such a person doesn't exist, and I'm still not clear that it does, although a few here did convince me it would be a woman ;)
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm

Katewerk wrote:
BigDonOKC wrote:WHAT MOST OF YOU ARE ASKING FOR IS A NATION WIDE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE :( THAT WOULD BE TO MUCH CONTROL :x :x BUT IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED THEN ASK TRUMP TO APPOINT ME TO REVIEW ALL RACES AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO HOLD TICKET UNTIL I SAY THIS IS HOW IT RAN. :P :P :P :P :P
Yes folks, be careful what you wish for...


I be fair after all like Colby I put my report on the Belmont race out the day before the race 1/6 w 1/6 and first call. he did the same thing on HC so you know I do my job. ;)

The race is over so let it go and move on. :shock:
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:59 pm

stark wrote:
barbaro111 wrote:First of all, all top sports have a commissioner--- or a central authority. I guess horse racing doesn't want to be included in that group.
Thanks Barbaro for the reply, much appreciated.

My main concern would be giving up too much for what is received in return.
This central authority would have to enter into the position without bias.
The breeding industry is a top priority.
The gambling public is a top priority.
The horse owners are a top priority.
This commissioner would have to get NYRA + Churchill + CHRB + Frank + the farms + the people at large all on the same page. IMHO, that's well beyond blue sky thinking.

All I can think of is some government agency in WashingtonDC making up rules for us to live by, please spare me.

We touched on this topic in a dedicated thread a while back and my assumption was that such a person doesn't exist, and I'm still not clear that it does, although a few here did convince me it would be a woman ;)
which part again of most state has one if you go national it would have to be oversight committee
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:26 pm

NHROC

On the 13 day of June 2018 the NHROIC (National Horse Race Oversight Intelligence Committee) Has been formed to give a just review of all horse races and report it findings to the public. There are to be 3 commissioners with one vote each. To start the NHROIC BigDonOKC will be the senior Commissioners and as the senior he will appoint two members from thoroughbredchampions which are members in good standing.
Senior Commissioner BigDonOKC will hold post for one year and new member will be elected by Committee at which point a new Senior Commissioner will be voted on by all four members and one member will be voted off the board.
Commissioner if he is willing Stark has the ability to keep something going with the intelligence of a good horse man.
Commissioner Kurenal if he is willing show ability of a true handicapper
New member will be voted in to committee each July.
If this is agreeable with member of this form, Stark and Kurenal we will review the 2018 belmont.
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:54 pm

As it is now, each state already has its own "oversight committee." In my state, and I'm sure others, those commissioners are appointed by the Governor and may or may not have any experience with racing. I know a few get appointed for political reasons.

The change to a national commission would make sense only if the makeup of the commission and the commissioner are very carefully selected to represent the broad range of racing interests.

I've said a lot about this issue in the prior thread. I wish the industry could fix its own issues but, after more than a decade of talks and arguments, that's gotten us nowhere. Central control works just fine in Europe and elsewhere. We could start by passing the Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017-18.

Steve Haskin @SteveHaskin
6h6 hours ago
To demonstrate how much racing has changed, it wasnt that long ago that Justify, Noble, Indy, Restoring Hope, and Vino Rosso would have been coupled in the wagering.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:55 pm

Oh gosh BigDon, golly, gee whiz, what an honor!
But I'm sorry to say that I have a prior engagement, season seats for the Dodgers that could cause me a conflict of interest should sports wagering be allowed in California along with betting on the ponies.

I therefore designate my spot on the committee to somebody who will know all the legalities, Tessablue if he will accept it.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:04 pm

I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:09 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote: We could start by passing the Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017-18.
Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017

This bill establishes the Horseracing Anti-Doping and Medication Control Authority as an independent non-profit corporation with responsibility for developing and administering an anti-doping and medication control program for: (1) Thoroughbred, Quarter, and Standardbred horses that participate in horse races that have a substantial relation to interstate commerce, (2) such horse races, and (3) the personnel engaged in the care, training, or racing of such horses.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) shall have exclusive jurisdiction over all horse racing anti-doping and medication control matters. The Authority and such FTC jurisdiction shall terminate if an interstate compact providing for services consistent with such program is established within five years after the program takes effect.

The Authority may enter into agreements with state racing commissions to implement the program within their jurisdictions.

Program elements shall include:

anti-doping and medication control rules,
lists of permitted and prohibited substances and methods,
a prohibition on the administration of any such substance within 24 hours of a horse's next racing start, and
testing and laboratory standards.
The Authority shall:

develop, maintain, and publish such lists;
establish a list of anti-doping and medication control rule violations applicable to either covered horses or persons;
establish standards and the process for laboratory accreditation and sample testing; and
promulgate rules for anti-doping and medication control results management, for the disciplinary process for violation results management, and for imposing sanctions for violations.
The bill sets forth civil enforcement provisions.

Activities under this bill are funded by an assessment placed on state racing commissions based on the calculation of cost per racing starter.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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