Justify/Restoring Hope...quite the duo

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Kurenai
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:57 pm

Guys, can you please take that argument elsewhere? Stick to PMs or something. This is not about the seven horses that died. Concentrate on the thread topic.
peeptoad
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:59 pm

Tessablue wrote:It's not libelous and it's not going to get anyone in trouble, are you kidding me? Anyone with an understanding of biology knows what happened there, and it was ugly. He'll never face consequences for it, so the least we can do is try to keep it in the light.
Well, I don't really have a dog in this fight (since I am not a Baffert "fanatic"), but just my 2 cents: I agree with keeping things "in the light" so to speak so that actions of the past are not recurring (inasmuch as "we" have any control over them at all), but there are a load of other trainers out there that have done similar or worse that also were not handed punishment for their actions. One of them had a horse entered in a prominent stakes race last Saturday. Sometimes keeping the activity in your brain for all eternity because justice wasn't served can cause unnecessary grief for the worrier. I'd agree if there was an indication that the activities are continuing, but I see no indication that Baffert is continuing down this path, so maybe he learned from the past or maybe the past wasn't entirely clear to the racing public to begin with.

Again, no judgement at all from me; maybe you all know more than I do though I keep up with the sport pretty well and as best I can...
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Kurenai
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:00 pm

Somnambulist wrote:Why would he hussle NI up just go to 10 wide? That would cost the horse the race right there.
Why should he have gone wide? Use him hard to get in between Justify and Restoring Hope (who was floating wide around the turn anyway). If your main goal is to get to the lead no matter what, according to tactics to soften Justify up. Yes, then you are in between Justify and the other rabbit, getting cooked on the lead. But doesn't matter anyway, you did what you were told to do.
katmandu
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:00 pm

"Rabbits are nothing new in racing"

Restoring Hope was not a "rabbit" in this race.


Restoring Hope cut in front of NI, that maneuver is what sent him wide in to the turn. . .
Last edited by katmandu on Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurenai
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:05 pm

katmandu wrote:"Rabbits are nothing new in racing"

Restoring Hope was not a "rabbit" in this race.
Bodyguard? :lol: I don't think Baffert did anything wrong with using the horse as a tactical advantage. As I said, the only questionable thing IMO is maybe the ride Castellano gave Noble Indy.
katmandu
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:07 pm

Kurenai wrote:
katmandu wrote:"Rabbits are nothing new in racing"

Restoring Hope was not a "rabbit" in this race.
Bodyguard? :lol:
That's one term that's being thrown around. He clearly wasn't a rabbit.


The problem is the bigger picture (including Audible and the bonuses for winning the TC) and on US racing's biggest stage. There is a "sub thread" going on about this, but the focus keeps getting shifted.


I don't think anyone is saying this (interference by another "associated" horse) hasn't happened before. "That move going into the first turn is one we’ve seen before, and also with an uncoupled entry mate— against a Hollendorfer horse a few years ago." (Jerry Brown)



https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sh ... ORM=VDRVRV
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Kurenai
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:54 pm

Ok, enough. I told you to stick to PM. I will delete the postings now.

You might not see it that way, but in that case I am also protecting you, cause you open yourself up to a lawsuit. (No, there is no anonymity on the internet) You can of course point out that you find it troublesome that horses died and you wish there would have been done more to look into it. But you can NOT accuse someone of killing them.

I agree that the method to point out what you said or how you worded it wasn't the nicest way. They still are correct though.
Apollo
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:00 pm

This topic is actually picking up steam several days later. I'm seeing it all over the place:

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/0 ... /23457057/
Tessablue
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:34 pm

peeptoad wrote: Well, I don't really have a dog in this fight (since I am not a Baffert "fanatic"), but just my 2 cents: I agree with keeping things "in the light" so to speak so that actions of the past are not recurring (inasmuch as "we" have any control over them at all), but there are a load of other trainers out there that have done similar or worse that also were not handed punishment for their actions. One of them had a horse entered in a prominent stakes race last Saturday. Sometimes keeping the activity in your brain for all eternity because justice wasn't served can cause unnecessary grief for the worrier. I'd agree if there was an indication that the activities are continuing, but I see no indication that Baffert is continuing down this path, so maybe he learned from the past or maybe the past wasn't entirely clear to the racing public to begin with.

Again, no judgement at all from me; maybe you all know more than I do though I keep up with the sport pretty well and as best I can...
I hear you peep, and I hope you're right. It's just hard to stomach when people rush to defend him while casting aspersions on an owner who has done measurable good for a lot of horses.

Anyways, back to Restoring Hope, I still think that if you take everything else he did in the race out of consideration, the way he was eased without being urged turning for home was deeply concerning.
BigDonOKC
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:50 pm

Kurenai wrote:Guys, can you please take that argument elsewhere? Stick to PMs or something. This is not about the seven horses that died. Concentrate on the thread topic.
You are 100% right time to stop beating a dead horse. :? the race is over there are no redo time to move on so you lost should have play as I did the only way it would run 1/6 with 1/6 and he won the race at the 1/2 mile when they slow down only to good horse in the race and I had them.

let go and move on



:roll:
stark
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Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 pm

The Pick 6 King
‏@jonathanstettin

True Story: A great jockey was once asked “why didn’t you go to the lead like I instructed?” He said simply “I had to stay with the horse.”
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
MySaladDays
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:22 am

barbaro111 wrote:Horse racing needs a central authority- until that happens this industry will continue to be chaotic. and there is no chance that there will ever be a
horse racing commissioner--- so we can expect more of the same ---
1000% agree
luvsgeldings
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:45 am

yup, I agree too. won't happen. and that is just too bad.
peeptoad
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:38 am

pretty good take, imho:http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-belmont- ... a-was-born

this is what I alluded to in my previous post:
As much as today’s trainers and jockeys seem to enjoy the spotlight, enhancing their brands, they still operate primarily behind the scenes, and more is left unsaid in lieu of quiet understandings and business relationships. Icebergs reveal more above the waterline.
and this
In the end, at least for the wider sports world, the first turn of the 2018 Belmont Stakes will eventually fade into the background, leaving only sour grapes. That’s too bad, because Justify deserved a clean deal, with no strings attached, and nothing but the memory of a gorgeous red colt standing tall atop a reinvigorated Triple Crown.
...and I also agree on the sport needing a central authority and/or racing commissioner.
Catalina
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:04 am

peeptoad wrote:pretty good take, imho:http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-belmont- ... a-was-born

this is what I alluded to in my previous post:
As much as today’s trainers and jockeys seem to enjoy the spotlight, enhancing their brands, they still operate primarily behind the scenes, and more is left unsaid in lieu of quiet understandings and business relationships. Icebergs reveal more above the waterline.
and this
In the end, at least for the wider sports world, the first turn of the 2018 Belmont Stakes will eventually fade into the background, leaving only sour grapes. That’s too bad, because Justify deserved a clean deal, with no strings attached, and nothing but the memory of a gorgeous red colt standing tall atop a reinvigorated Triple Crown.
...and I also agree on the sport needing a central authority and/or racing commissioner.
Very well written piece.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:06 am

luvsgeldings wrote:yup, I agree too. won't happen. and that is just too bad.
MySaladDays wrote:
barbaro111 wrote:Horse racing needs a central authority- until that happens this industry will continue to be chaotic. and there is no chance that there will ever be a
horse racing commissioner--- so we can expect more of the same ---
1000% agree
Lets just close our eyes for a minute and pretend that there really is a headmistress elected into the national position.

With all the power, what specifically do you suppose she would have done in this situation before the race? After the race?

thanks
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:30 am

I have look this thing over and now believe the Russian set it up for Justify to win the T.C. :roll:
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:02 am

stark wrote:The Pick 6 King
‏@jonathanstettin

True Story: A great jockey was once asked “why didn’t you go to the lead like I instructed?” He said simply “I had to stay with the horse.”
Saw this year ago at Remington park jockey came off of horse a few feet from wire he past the wire with arms around horses heck and feet off the ground he still won because he did not hit ground before the wire :lol:
barbaro111
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:16 pm

First of all, all top sports have a commissioner--- or a central authority. I guess horse racing doesn't want to be included in that group.
If there was a commissioner, there would be policies and protocols that would govern situations like the one that occurred on Belmont Day, that is to say
an allegation of alleged interference. Protocol would have required the complainant to make that complaint immediately following the race; then there would no doubt be a committee that would review the video, written protocol and would be guided by those elements. What you had in this situation is an allegation that was not immediately made after the race; instead Repole went to the media and stated he wanted the situation investigated but i don't think he actually filed a complaint with the stewards. In as much as corporate ownership of several horses with one trainer may become more commonplace, there would have to be rules and protocol to deal with such a situation. For example, coupling in that situation could be required ..

As an example, let's say there is a question of a dirty hit in the NHL. The video goes to a committee; they interview each of the parties involved and make a decision if that was in fact a dirty hit or not; it they deem it was, they then mete out punishment. There might a suspension- how long would the suspension be or a fine, or both. They are guided by rules of the game, protocol and then they have use judgement based on various factors.

Why is the horse industry so resistant to the idea of a commissioner or central authority- it would certainly make the sport consistent from venue to venue with medications and so forth.

Whether we believe there was interference during the Belmont that helped the winner is a matter of opinion; the problem is that this situation became very visible to mainstream and gives people who already think the game is fixed, another reason to see what they believe is a corrupt industry.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:29 pm

12-18-17 Notice
The Directive on Commission-Sanctioned Thresholds was eliminated 12-18-17 with Gov. Fallin's approval of the proposed emergency rule amendments to Chapter 45

Our main office has moved to: 2800 N Lincoln Blvd, Suite 220, Oklahoma City, OK 73105
Our Mission
The Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission encourages agriculture, the breeding of horses, the growth, sustenance and development of live racing, and generates public revenue through the forceful control, regulation, implementation and enforcement of Commission-licensed horse racing and gaming.

Our website is under construction.

LOOKS LIKE EACH STATE HAS TO HAVE IT OWN--- NO FEDERAL CONTROL SO CHECK OWN STATE, I KNOW THERE ONE IN NEW YORK. ARE DO YOU WONT TRUMP IN CHARGE?
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