Justify/Restoring Hope...quite the duo

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MR-W
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:30 pm

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't read or heard much about this. Restoring Hope reminded me of a Navy destroyer protecting an aircraft carrier on it's voyage. Florent Geroux kept his horse in a very strategic position until he ran out of gas...Don't take it that I feel Justify needed this. He's simply a monster on the track.
stark
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:46 pm

Just to whet your appetite some, you should go over to PaceAdv where they've taken it to another level as they caught Javier and Florent discussing things before the race was even over!

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/show ... p?t=145374

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I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
sweettalk
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:32 pm

how much can I realistically charge per tin foil hat? I got bills to pay and these fine folks need the protection :lol:
MR-W
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:58 pm

stark wrote:Just to whet your appetite some, you should go over to PaceAdv where they've taken it to another level as they caught Javier and Florent discussing things before the race was even over!

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/show ... p?t=145374

Image
Thanks for the thread. I wanted to get insight of others and I'm glad that it's being talked about somewhere.
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Treve
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:28 pm

It's being discussed on this forum too in the Belmont Watchalong thread. Was mentioned by a few posters right after the race, but the discussion really starts around page 20/21
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6278&start=200
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
Tessablue
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:35 pm

stark wrote:Just to whet your appetite some, you should go over to PaceAdv where they've taken it to another level as they caught Javier and Florent discussing things before the race was even over!

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/show ... p?t=145374
Huh, I hadn't even considered how unusual it was that they announced blinkers off well after betting had begun on the race. Just add it onto the pile I guess!
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honneerider
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:36 pm

Justify shot out of the gate like a missile. He was so much the best, and the overhead to me makes it even more clear no one was catching him.
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Big Ten
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:13 pm

Ran one of the fastest half miles in the Derby and still won. Good Magic and Audible had their opportunity to catch him and didn't.

Had a bruised hoof and had a long sustained duel with the 2YO/BCJ champ and still came out on top.

Forced to go wire-to-wire in the Belmont and still won.

Rain, shine, pace or no pace, it doesn't matter. No excuses. Still wins.

I don't think Justify looks the type that needs a bodyguard. ;) That's like saying Iron Mike Tyson needed one back in the mid-1980's. Justify is justiTRUTH.

He went from padawan learner to Jedi master in 112 days.
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
luvsgeldings
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:20 pm

anyone here read that New York post story about the Belmont yesterday. very interesting. especially the comments from RH's owner. he was livid about the ride his horse got yesterday.
stark
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:23 pm

What part of "he was rank" are these people choosing to ignore?

I dare you to watch it again and not at least give that some consideration!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
MR-W
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:27 pm

Big Ten wrote:Ran one of the fastest half miles in the Derby and still won. Good Magic and Audible had their opportunity to catch him and didn't.

Had a bruised hoof and had a long sustained duel with the 2YO/BCJ champ and still came out on top.

Forced to go wire-to-wire in the Belmont and still won.

Rain, shine, pace or no pace, it doesn't matter. No excuses. Still wins.

I don't think Justify looks the type that needs a bodyguard. ;) That's like saying Iron Mike Tyson needed one back in the mid-1980's. Justify is justiTRUTH.

He went from padawan learner to Jedi master in 112 days.
I agree, he didn't need a bodyguard...but he got one yesterday.
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Starine
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:31 pm

Did Justify get undue help from another Bob Baffert horse in winning at Belmont?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... cc91f28957
“It definitely seemed to me he was more of an offensive lineman than a racehorse trying to win the Belmont,” Mike Repole, the co-owner of Noble Indy and fourth-place Vino Rosso, said of Restoring Hope to the New York Post, “and Justify was a running back trying to run for a touchdown.”
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Charlie
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:41 pm

stark wrote:What part of "he was rank" are these people choosing to ignore?

I dare you to watch it again and not at least give that some consideration!

Why is it so hard for you to admit Restoring Hope’s only point of that race was to make Justifiy’s race easier?
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Treve
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:04 pm

Big Ten wrote:Ran one of the fastest half miles in the Derby and still won. Good Magic and Audible had their opportunity to catch him and didn't.

Had a bruised hoof and had a long sustained duel with the 2YO/BCJ champ and still came out on top.

Forced to go wire-to-wire in the Belmont and still won.

Rain, shine, pace or no pace, it doesn't matter. No excuses. Still wins.

I don't think Justify looks the type that needs a bodyguard. ;) That's like saying Iron Mike Tyson needed one back in the mid-1980's. Justify is justiTRUTH.

He went from padawan learner to Jedi master in 112 days.
He wasn't forced to go. Besides only two TC winners didn't wire their fields and that was back in the 30s I believe, both were on the lead by the half - a TC is won on the lead.

And the last part... that's kind of the point. Most people believe Justify would've won anyway, so why the escort?
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
stark
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:06 pm

Charlie wrote:
stark wrote:What part of "he was rank" are these people choosing to ignore?

I dare you to watch it again and not at least give that some consideration!

Why is it so hard for you to admit Restoring Hope’s only point of that race was to make Justifiy’s race easier?
Because I want to continue to be a fan of horse racing and if I thought bush league tactics were in play on the big stage I'd be forced back onto the golf course for entertainment as I wouldn't want to follow anything other than maybe wrasslin if I thought it was fixed as is being suggested.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Treve
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:07 pm

stark wrote:What part of "he was rank" are these people choosing to ignore?

I dare you to watch it again and not at least give that some consideration!
Even if that were true, why do you fight him and take the horse wide???
No one is ignoring that part... it just doesn't really change much. If that were the case he could've chosen to simply let the horse go then maybe relax on the lead. Or let him run his race but... here's the rub if he had done that, it might have affected Justify. So he chose to act in a way that didn't benefit his horse... but went out of his way to avoid impeding one horse and simultaneously impede several other horses...

Also, if the horse was rank, he probably made him rank by hustling him out and gunning for the front like crazy after he practically walked out of the gate. Sure way to crank up a horse is to rush 'em usually.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
stark
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:11 pm

Treve wrote: Even if that were true, why do you fight him and take the horse wide???
No one is ignoring that part... it just doesn't really change much. If that were the case he could've chosen to simply let the horse go then maybe relax on the lead. Or let him run his race but... here's the rub if he had done that, it might have affected Justify. So he chose to act in a way that didn't benefit his horse... but went out of his way to avoid impeding one horse and simultaneously impede several other horses...

Also, if the horse was rank, he probably made him rank by hustling him out and gunning for the front like crazy after he practically walked out of the gate. Sure way to crank up a horse is to rush 'em usually.
Now, don't forget to factor in the blinkers-on blinkers-off move by the trainer who was as much as telling the world he's a head case we haven't figured out yet, but he's got a lot of talent, that's why he's in the race.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Miss Woodford
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:14 pm

The bigger issue than a "tainted" Triple Crown (Sir Barton ran coked up to his eyeballs. That crown was never clean in the first place) is that there is gambling involved, and when a horse is being entered not to win but to help another horse win, while not being a coupled entry, bettors deserve to know about it. Doesn't matter if it's a $4,000 claiming race or the Belmont Stakes. People who put money on Restoring Hope are right to be angry.
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Treve
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:20 pm

stark wrote:
Treve wrote: Even if that were true, why do you fight him and take the horse wide???
No one is ignoring that part... it just doesn't really change much. If that were the case he could've chosen to simply let the horse go then maybe relax on the lead. Or let him run his race but... here's the rub if he had done that, it might have affected Justify. So he chose to act in a way that didn't benefit his horse... but went out of his way to avoid impeding one horse and simultaneously impede several other horses...

Also, if the horse was rank, he probably made him rank by hustling him out and gunning for the front like crazy after he practically walked out of the gate. Sure way to crank up a horse is to rush 'em usually.
Now, don't forget to factor in the blinkers-on blinkers-off move by the trainer who was as much as telling the world he's a head case we haven't figured out yet, but he's got a lot of talent, that's why he's in the race.
That's 100% conjecture. Blinkers went off Noble Indy too, it's probably not even a headcase thing. If you have a horse that can be sharp, it can make a lot of sense to take the blinkers off to get him to relax... That's a pretty common move, and usually what is assumed when blinkers go on/off horse will be more/less forwardly placed and/or break more/less sharpy, and especially if he is a headcase, why then would you as a jockey do anything to rush or otherwise trigger him?
Also if it were a head-case thing, wouldn't they have submitted this equipment change before the betting opened instead of at the last minute after the betting opened? (Which is incredibly unfair to the betting public btw). He had 5 weeks to work him and decide. Also it's not like the horse has been wildly inconsistent he hit the board in all but the last two races, the previous one probably excusable from the slop, the latest one... currently debated.
Also the chart for his Pat Day Mile says "was hustled along six wide for six furlongs and caved" ... if you know that's how his last race played out and the only one where prior he didn't hit the board, why oh why would you hustle him out wide in a 12f race?
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
stark
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Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:32 pm

nt
Last edited by stark on Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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