Justify/Restoring Hope...quite the duo

BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:37 pm

WHAT MOST OF YOU ARE ASKING FOR IS A NATION WIDE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE :( THAT WOULD BE TO MUCH CONTROL :x :x BUT IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED THEN ASK TRUMP TO APPOINT ME TO REVIEW ALL RACES AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO HOLD TICKET UNTIL I SAY THIS IS HOW IT RAN. :P :P :P :P :P
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Katewerk
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:39 pm

BigDonOKC wrote:WHAT MOST OF YOU ARE ASKING FOR IS A NATION WIDE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE :( THAT WOULD BE TO MUCH CONTROL :x :x BUT IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED THEN ASK TRUMP TO APPOINT ME TO REVIEW ALL RACES AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO HOLD TICKET UNTIL I SAY THIS IS HOW IT RAN. :P :P :P :P :P
Yes folks, be careful what you wish for...
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:47 pm

barbaro111 wrote:First of all, all top sports have a commissioner--- or a central authority. I guess horse racing doesn't want to be included in that group.
Thanks Barbaro for the reply, much appreciated.

My main concern would be giving up too much for what is received in return.
This central authority would have to enter into the position without bias.
The breeding industry is a top priority.
The gambling public is a top priority.
The horse owners are a top priority.
This commissioner would have to get NYRA + Churchill + CHRB + Frank + the farms + the people at large all on the same page. IMHO, that's well beyond blue sky thinking.

All I can think of is some government agency in WashingtonDC making up rules for us to live by, please spare me.

We touched on this topic in a dedicated thread a while back and my assumption was that such a person doesn't exist, and I'm still not clear that it does, although a few here did convince me it would be a woman ;)
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm

Katewerk wrote:
BigDonOKC wrote:WHAT MOST OF YOU ARE ASKING FOR IS A NATION WIDE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE :( THAT WOULD BE TO MUCH CONTROL :x :x BUT IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED THEN ASK TRUMP TO APPOINT ME TO REVIEW ALL RACES AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO HOLD TICKET UNTIL I SAY THIS IS HOW IT RAN. :P :P :P :P :P
Yes folks, be careful what you wish for...


I be fair after all like Colby I put my report on the Belmont race out the day before the race 1/6 w 1/6 and first call. he did the same thing on HC so you know I do my job. ;)

The race is over so let it go and move on. :shock:
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:59 pm

stark wrote:
barbaro111 wrote:First of all, all top sports have a commissioner--- or a central authority. I guess horse racing doesn't want to be included in that group.
Thanks Barbaro for the reply, much appreciated.

My main concern would be giving up too much for what is received in return.
This central authority would have to enter into the position without bias.
The breeding industry is a top priority.
The gambling public is a top priority.
The horse owners are a top priority.
This commissioner would have to get NYRA + Churchill + CHRB + Frank + the farms + the people at large all on the same page. IMHO, that's well beyond blue sky thinking.

All I can think of is some government agency in WashingtonDC making up rules for us to live by, please spare me.

We touched on this topic in a dedicated thread a while back and my assumption was that such a person doesn't exist, and I'm still not clear that it does, although a few here did convince me it would be a woman ;)
which part again of most state has one if you go national it would have to be oversight committee
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:26 pm

NHROC

On the 13 day of June 2018 the NHROIC (National Horse Race Oversight Intelligence Committee) Has been formed to give a just review of all horse races and report it findings to the public. There are to be 3 commissioners with one vote each. To start the NHROIC BigDonOKC will be the senior Commissioners and as the senior he will appoint two members from thoroughbredchampions which are members in good standing.
Senior Commissioner BigDonOKC will hold post for one year and new member will be elected by Committee at which point a new Senior Commissioner will be voted on by all four members and one member will be voted off the board.
Commissioner if he is willing Stark has the ability to keep something going with the intelligence of a good horse man.
Commissioner Kurenal if he is willing show ability of a true handicapper
New member will be voted in to committee each July.
If this is agreeable with member of this form, Stark and Kurenal we will review the 2018 belmont.
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:54 pm

As it is now, each state already has its own "oversight committee." In my state, and I'm sure others, those commissioners are appointed by the Governor and may or may not have any experience with racing. I know a few get appointed for political reasons.

The change to a national commission would make sense only if the makeup of the commission and the commissioner are very carefully selected to represent the broad range of racing interests.

I've said a lot about this issue in the prior thread. I wish the industry could fix its own issues but, after more than a decade of talks and arguments, that's gotten us nowhere. Central control works just fine in Europe and elsewhere. We could start by passing the Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017-18.

Steve Haskin @SteveHaskin
6h6 hours ago
To demonstrate how much racing has changed, it wasnt that long ago that Justify, Noble, Indy, Restoring Hope, and Vino Rosso would have been coupled in the wagering.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:55 pm

Oh gosh BigDon, golly, gee whiz, what an honor!
But I'm sorry to say that I have a prior engagement, season seats for the Dodgers that could cause me a conflict of interest should sports wagering be allowed in California along with betting on the ponies.

I therefore designate my spot on the committee to somebody who will know all the legalities, Tessablue if he will accept it.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:04 pm

I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:09 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote: We could start by passing the Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017-18.
Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017

This bill establishes the Horseracing Anti-Doping and Medication Control Authority as an independent non-profit corporation with responsibility for developing and administering an anti-doping and medication control program for: (1) Thoroughbred, Quarter, and Standardbred horses that participate in horse races that have a substantial relation to interstate commerce, (2) such horse races, and (3) the personnel engaged in the care, training, or racing of such horses.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) shall have exclusive jurisdiction over all horse racing anti-doping and medication control matters. The Authority and such FTC jurisdiction shall terminate if an interstate compact providing for services consistent with such program is established within five years after the program takes effect.

The Authority may enter into agreements with state racing commissions to implement the program within their jurisdictions.

Program elements shall include:

anti-doping and medication control rules,
lists of permitted and prohibited substances and methods,
a prohibition on the administration of any such substance within 24 hours of a horse's next racing start, and
testing and laboratory standards.
The Authority shall:

develop, maintain, and publish such lists;
establish a list of anti-doping and medication control rule violations applicable to either covered horses or persons;
establish standards and the process for laboratory accreditation and sample testing; and
promulgate rules for anti-doping and medication control results management, for the disciplinary process for violation results management, and for imposing sanctions for violations.
The bill sets forth civil enforcement provisions.

Activities under this bill are funded by an assessment placed on state racing commissions based on the calculation of cost per racing starter.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:15 pm

stark wrote:Oh gosh BigDon, golly, gee whiz, what an honor!
But I'm sorry to say that I have a prior engagement, season seats for the Dodgers that could cause me a conflict of interest should sports wagering be allowed in California along with betting on the ponies.

I therefore designate my spot on the committee to somebody who will know all the legalities, Tessablue if he will accept it.


did not think you were up to it :P :P :P
Somnambulist
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:16 pm

I believe NYRA still couples if the purse is under $50k.

I'm not sure I disagree with that though. The Lumbar Guy going down to miserably low odds in the Vosburgh because of the coupled entry sticks out in my mind.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:17 pm

stark wrote:
Sparrow Castle wrote: We could start by passing the Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017-18.
Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017

This bill establishes the Horseracing Anti-Doping and Medication Control Authority as an independent non-profit corporation with responsibility for developing and administering an anti-doping and medication control program for: (1) Thoroughbred, Quarter, and Standardbred horses that participate in horse races that have a substantial relation to interstate commerce, (2) such horse races, and (3) the personnel engaged in the care, training, or racing of such horses.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) shall have exclusive jurisdiction over all horse racing anti-doping and medication control matters. The Authority and such FTC jurisdiction shall terminate if an interstate compact providing for services consistent with such program is established within five years after the program takes effect.

The Authority may enter into agreements with state racing commissions to implement the program within their jurisdictions.

Program elements shall include:

anti-doping and medication control rules,
lists of permitted and prohibited substances and methods,
a prohibition on the administration of any such substance within 24 hours of a horse's next racing start, and
testing and laboratory standards.
The Authority shall:

develop, maintain, and publish such lists;
establish a list of anti-doping and medication control rule violations applicable to either covered horses or persons;
establish standards and the process for laboratory accreditation and sample testing; and
promulgate rules for anti-doping and medication control results management, for the disciplinary process for violation results management, and for imposing sanctions for violations.
The bill sets forth civil enforcement provisions.

Activities under this bill are funded by an assessment placed on state racing commissions based on the calculation of cost per racing starter.
Yes, this would be a place to start standardizing things. Let's get this passed and then work on the broader issues. If we can't get this passed soon, I'm ready to go for the golden ring that will do it all. Tired of all the discussion and nothing getting done.
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:27 pm

Somnambulist wrote:I believe NYRA still couples if the purse is under $50k.

I'm not sure I disagree with that though. The Lumbar Guy going down to miserably low odds in the Vosburgh because of the coupled entry sticks out in my mind.
It would have made betting the Belmont entirely different that's for sure. I'm not sure that would have changed at all the way the Belmont was run. But it's not very often that a triple crown would be on the line for one of the coupled entries.
BigDonOKC
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:47 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:I believe NYRA still couples if the purse is under $50k.

I'm not sure I disagree with that though. The Lumbar Guy going down to miserably low odds in the Vosburgh because of the coupled entry sticks out in my mind.
It would have made betting the Belmont entirely different that's for sure. I'm not sure that would have changed at all the way the Belmont was run. But it's not very often that a triple crown would be on the line for one of the coupled entries.

year ago for get the track had a coupled entry of one and one A 2 and 2B it ran one 2b and 4 paid 1 4 ex because the 2 was not a live runer and 2b was not running for purse. even though it ran second 2b
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:01 pm

BigDonOKC wrote: year ago for get the track had a coupled entry of one and one A 2 and 2B it ran one 2b and 4 paid 1 4 ex because the 2 was not a live runer and 2b was not running for purse. even though it ran second 2b
I remember that race, 2 days before the race Curtis posted right here he liked the 1-4 a lot.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Tessablue
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:18 pm

stark wrote: I therefore designate my spot on the committee to somebody who will know all the legalities, Tessablue if he will accept it.
It's flattering to learn that you've somehow gained the impression that I have experience in law. A bit less flattering that you think I'm a man, but oh well.

I want standardized raceday procedures, centralized funding for medical and safety research, and informed dissemination of research findings and medical warnings. We don't know enough, and what we do know is hard to find.

On the transparency side, greater disclosure of ownership percentages in partnerships, reworked jockey suspensions to potentially include trainers if the horse was not ridden to win, and some standardization on the issue of rabbits and entrymates. Either new approaches to coupling or some sort of declaration system in the event that connections have multiple horses in the same race.
stark
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:17 pm

Why should it be federal and not individual state laws? For comparison some states people don't have to pay state income tax. Some states are more friendly to illegal aliens than other states
Some states let their people smoke marijuana while others don't. Who is to say the federal law would be in the best interest of all? Let's just take a simple topic like takeout. Does anybody think a federal ageny has the uniform answer?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:27 pm

stark wrote:
BigDonOKC wrote: year ago for get the track had a coupled entry of one and one A 2 and 2B it ran one 2b and 4 paid 1 4 ex because the 2 was not a live runer and 2b was not running for purse. even though it ran second 2b
I remember that race, 2 days before the race Curtis posted right here he liked the 1-4 a lot.
Nah, I ended up betting the 4-1 straight since the 4 had a better liter to yard quotient. Woulda got it too, if only the darned jock on the 2B had kept his mount running straight on the clubhouse turn. Tough beat!
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:00 pm

stark wrote:Why should it be federal and not individual state laws? For comparison some states people don't have to pay state income tax. Some states are more friendly to illegal aliens than other states
Some states let their people smoke marijuana while others don't. Who is to say the federal law would be in the best interest of all? Let's just take a simple topic like takeout. Does anybody think a federal ageny has the uniform answer?
I'm not advocating for a federal law to establish or have oversight of a national commission. The Horseracing Integrity Act establishes a non-profit that is limited in scope. It's focus is the medication use and regulation part. These are two different things, but the provisions in the Act could lead the industry to establish a national commission, similar to other national sports, if an Interstate Compact isn't going well.

My personal feelings are that the issues in the industry are too broad to be solved through IC. I'm no expert on this but try to stay informed about the issues and pros and cons. And, because it isn't yet law, there could be substantial changes in the Horseracing Integrity Act in order to pass it.
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