Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Sparrow Castle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:20 am

tcw wrote:Thought I read somewhere that there's going to be a segment on Justify winning the TC on the NBC Nightly News... Anyone know if so, and if true when it's going to be broadcast?

It was tonight. Here's a link to the show, the segment on Justify is towards the end.

https://www.nbc.com/nightly-news/video/nbc-nightly-news-jun-10-2018/3734102
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby BaroqueAgain1 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:31 am

I don't feel strongly one way or the other about Restoring Hope's ride, but IMHO it does matter if the general...and generally-uninformed...public grabs on to it and believes that some nefarious conspiracy made Justify's win happen.
If my memory of racing history is correct, race-riding tactics to help a stablemate are nothing new. The phrase 'riding someone else's horse instead of you own' also comes to mind.
In Europe, it's common for there to be a pacesetter (a 'rabbit' to some US fans) to ensure a decent pace for a stablemate who tends to run farther back. But there is no attempt to hide the fact that a stable is sending out more than one horse, and that one may act as a pacesetter, since they usually have the same owner and are wearing the same silks.
That multiple owner situation with Justify, as has been pointed out by others, has made the 'optics' very muddy. Who is calling the shots? How does overlapping ownership deal with horses who may be running against each other?
We already know that Audible's absence from the Belmont made some people question whether he was kept away from NY to help Justify's chances of taking the Triple Crown. Now Restoring Hope's ride is just creating more questions.
The next week or so could be very interesting for all the parties involved...especially any writers in the racing industry who might try to answer some of those questions. :P
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby stark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:41 am

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:If my memory of racing history is correct, race-riding tactics to help a stablemate are nothing new. The phrase 'riding someone else's horse instead of you own' also comes to mind.


He's Manny Franco's agent, and it was actually more about herding, hampering, blocking, pushing into the rail, taking wide etc. for his own benefit not somebody elses.

And if you really believe that's what happened, then the stewards should be handing down a 60 day suspension at the minimum to Florent Geroux.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby BaroqueAgain1 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:30 am

He's Manny Franco's agent, and it was actually more about herding, hampering, blocking, pushing into the rail, taking wide etc. for his own benefit not somebody elses.

?????
Who is Manny Franco's agent, and what does Franco have to do the Belmont? And whose 'own benefit' do you mean?
Sorry, I just want to understand the points you're trying to make.
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby stark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:40 am

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:He's Manny Franco's agent, and it was actually more about herding, hampering, blocking, pushing into the rail, taking wide etc. for his own benefit not somebody elses.

?????
Who is Manny Franco's agent, and what does Franco have to do the Belmont? And whose 'own benefit' do you mean?
Sorry, I just want to understand the points you're trying to make.


His name is Angel Cordero, he rode on the NYRA circuit 1960-90, he's also the agent for JohnnyV, and he was notorious for rough riding, "riding more than one horse in a race" but he only cared about winning for himself, not setting up a race for another horse.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Sparrow Castle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:46 am

The WaPost story (and the DRF's) brings up lots of issues.

I think it's possible that Restoring Hope was rank and out of Geroux’s control and he needed to settle him behind Justify so as not to get in a speed duel that wouldn't benefit either horse. Don't even want to imagine the conversation between him and Baffert had he worn down Justify to the point of losing, and he might have panicked a little at the thought. Still, all those moves he made on the horse didn't look too good.

I think this sort of thing also looks questionable to your average race fan/bettor. Not sure this would have ended so well either had it worked, at least not for Pletcher's relationship with WinStar.
Repole had also wanted Noble Indy to take an early lead and push a pace that Justify might have found taxing, potentially allowing for Vino Rosso to use his late speed to win the race. He said that he and the horse’s trainer, Todd Pletcher, “were crystal clear” to the jockey, Javier Castellano, “to make the lead,” but for some reason it didn’t happen.

“He wanted me to be on the lead, but I didn’t have enough speed to get to the lead,” Castellano said (via DRF). “I made an effort, but I got to the point where I had to give up. How far can I go — 10 wide — and try to go to the lead? I can’t.”

“Javier opted to go to his plan B,” Pletcher said. “Mike and I didn’t discuss a plan B.”


Adding a layer of complexity was the fact that the other co-owner of Noble Indy, WinStar Farm, is also a majority owner of Justify. Thus WinStar Farm, unlike Repole, would have had no desire to see Noble Indy set a pace that would have hurt its prized horse’s chance at Triple Crown immortality.

That sort of conflict had professional handicapper Kevin Cox tweeting Saturday, “THIS is why common trainers & owners need to be coupled. You have to protect the public.”

I'm a little surprised to see so much grousing from owners, trainers, and jockeys after this race. While I somewhat agree with Kevin Cox, with the convoluted multiple ownerships here across trainers, I'm not sure which horses you would couple that would have prevented a conflict of interest or changed anything here.

It truly is a fascinating situation, and one that's likely to get more common. It will be interesting to see if this story has "legs" so to speak.
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby firehorse » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:50 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:The WaPost story (and the DRF's) brings up lots of issues.

I think it's possible that Restoring Hope was rank and out of Geroux’s control and he needed to settle him behind Justify so as not to get in a speed duel that wouldn't benefit either horse. Don't even want to imagine the conversation between him and Baffert had he worn down Justify to the point of losing, and he might have panicked a little at the thought. Still, all those moves he made on the horse didn't look too good.

I think this sort of thing also looks questionable to your average race fan/bettor. Not sure this would have ended so well either had it worked, at least not for Pletcher's relationship with WinStar.
Repole had also wanted Noble Indy to take an early lead and push a pace that Justify might have found taxing, potentially allowing for Vino Rosso to use his late speed to win the race. He said that he and the horse’s trainer, Todd Pletcher, “were crystal clear” to the jockey, Javier Castellano, “to make the lead,” but for some reason it didn’t happen.

“He wanted me to be on the lead, but I didn’t have enough speed to get to the lead,” Castellano said (via DRF). “I made an effort, but I got to the point where I had to give up. How far can I go — 10 wide — and try to go to the lead? I can’t.”

“Javier opted to go to his plan B,” Pletcher said. “Mike and I didn’t discuss a plan B.”


Adding a layer of complexity was the fact that the other co-owner of Noble Indy, WinStar Farm, is also a majority owner of Justify. Thus WinStar Farm, unlike Repole, would have had no desire to see Noble Indy set a pace that would have hurt its prized horse’s chance at Triple Crown immortality.

That sort of conflict had professional handicapper Kevin Cox tweeting Saturday, “THIS is why common trainers & owners need to be coupled. You have to protect the public.”

I'm a little surprised to see so much grousing from owners, trainers, and jockeys after this race. While I somewhat agree with Kevin Cox, with the convoluted multiple ownerships here across trainers, I'm not sure which horses you would couple that would have prevented a conflict of interest or changed anything here.

It truly is a fascinating situation, and one that's likely to get more common. It will be interesting to see if this story has "legs" so to speak.


It's now up on Drudge Report, so it's got legs. Surprised, Repole and Pletcher are coming off as such sore losers (maybe not so surprised at Repole, but Pletcher I am actually kinda shocked)
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Sparrow Castle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:17 pm

Good read from KALYN KAHLER at SI...

A Saturday at the Belmont With Gronk
Rob Gronkowski screamed wildly from his spot in an owner’s box as Justify and the pack of horses crossed the finish line of the 150th Belmont Stakes. But unlike the rest of the crowd of 90,000, he didn’t seem to care much about Justify’s rare Triple Crown feat. Gronk held up two fingers, then put his hands behind his head in a gesture of disbelief. “Second! Second?” he shouted, as if seeking confirmation that the racehorse named after him, of which he is a minority owner, actually did just finish second at the Belmont, the third jewel of the Triple Crown. This after coming out of the gate dead last.

From the sixth post, Gronkowski (the horse) got off to the worst start imaginable and Gronkowski the human’s cheers fell silent as he watched his racehorse fall 12 lengths off the back of the pack at the first turn—a distance that seemed much too far to make up. In fact, he was so far behind that he was hardly shown on the screen in the TV broadcast for the first half of the race, as the cameras cut tight shots to show the group in contention. As a Patriot, though, Gronk knows about big deficits—remember 28-3?—and he continued cheering for his namesake even though the distance seemed insurmountable.

Maybe it was Gronk’s childlike belief that willed the horse’s comeback. One mile into the mile-and-a-half race, Gronkowski caught up with the back of the pack, and under the hand of jockey Jose Ortiz, started making a move on the inside. At the final turn, Ortiz cut his horse to the rail and surged into second, behind Justify, holding the spot to the finish. A horse that had never run in America, never run on dirt and never run this far finished 1¾ lengths behind an immortal Triple Crown winner.

“At first I was like dang, we’re in last place by like fifteen yards!” Gronkowski said breathlessly, translating the race to football-speak moments after the finish. “But I was like, the race ain’t over, and then he’s getting closer and closer and all of sudden he is fourth, third, second, I just started going ballistic!

“It’s never over until it’s over. He didn’t take first place, but he was super close, and for what his odds started at, 69-1, to get second place like that and barely lose—people made some money!”

People made some money. Rob’s dad, brothers and pals who came with him to cheer on Team Gronkowski placed numerous $69 bets on his horse to place. Each of those wagers paid out to the tune of $1200.

More: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/06/11/belmont-stakes-with-rob-gronkowski-new-england-patriots-horse
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Sparrow Castle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:48 pm

The Monday Special – June 11
TIHR Staff
...Worth Repeating

“When he made that move in the far turn, I was like, ‘oh, Mike, oh, Mike, don’t empty that tank, Mike.’ ”
Bob Baffert, trainer of Justify

“What am I thinking right now? How hot I am right now. I’m sweating.”
WinStar Farm’s Kenny Troutt when asked what he was feeling about the Triple Crown victory during post-race press conference

“Just real blessed because you can’t find these horses, they find you.”
WinStar’s Elliott Walden to the same question

“And by the way, they found this horse, he didn’t find them.”
Baffert on the ownership team that bought Justify for $500,000 at the 2016 Keeneland September yearling sale

“I think he’s the greatest of all time. I just won the Triple Crown, man. He’s my champion.”
Mike Smith on where Justify ranks among the great American Thoroughbreds

“By the way, nobody has asked me about Hoppertunity.”
Baffert on the Brooklyn winner who surpassed $4.6 million in earnings Saturday

“It’s one of those Triple Crowns where I had two really good horses in each race I had the second-best horse and that’s the way it went. That’s the end of the story. Justify is a top horse and he won the Triple Crown, and that’s what horse racing is all about. You’ve got to run against everybody and it only takes one good one to beat you. To come so close in the Triple Crown ... but we ran into a real buzz saw.”
Chad Brown, who saddled Good Magic to a runner-up in the Derby and a fourth in the Preakness and Gronkowski to a runner-up in the Belmont

“You can’t doubt him now, there’s no way. You’ve got to give him credit.”
Bill Mott on Justify

“Is that him?”
University of Kentucky men's basketball coach John Calipari when Justify entered the paddock

“I think you have one the best 3-year-old sprinters in the country."
First thing TIHR’s Ben Gowans said April 24 during a phone call with trainer Tim Keefe, three days after Still Having Fun finished sixth in the 1 1/8-mile Federico Tesio Stakes

“I’m a little out of my comfort zone running up there on Belmont Day but Sean (Clancy) says I need to be taken out of my comfort zone because it’s good for me.”
Tim Keefe last week when discussing running Still Having Fun at Belmont

“I’m in the grandstand eating a stale $6 bag of popcorn.”
Tim Keefe when asked where he was at 11:00 Saturday morning

“No, probably something reheated at 9:00 when I get home.”
Tim Keefe when asked if he had a celebratory dinner planned

“No, that line is way too long.”
Brad Cox when asked if he still wanted to get a bottle of water just after Monomoy Girl’s win in the Acorn

“What makes a mockery of his breeding is that his dam (the Danehill Dancer mare Memory) was a brilliant 6-furlong mare. And she’s bred a brilliant 2-year-old that hasn’t gone beyond 7 furlongs. So that’s what makes us keep guessing and The Queen gets so much pleasure out of this.”
John Warren, racing manager for England’s Queen Elizabeth II, on Friday’s Belmont Gold Cup winner Call To Mind

More: https://thisishorseracing.com/news/index.php/news/5153-the-monday-special-june-11
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Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby tcw » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:10 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:
tcw wrote:Thought I read somewhere that there's going to be a segment on Justify winning the TC on the NBC Nightly News... Anyone know if so, and if true when it's going to be broadcast?

It was tonight. Here's a link to the show, the segment on Justify is towards the end.

https://www.nbc.com/nightly-news/video/nbc-nightly-news-jun-10-2018/3734102


Thanks for posting!
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