Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Tessablue » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:02 pm

Charlie wrote:I have a few questions. One, why are people hell bent on denying Restoring Hope’s whole purpose in this race? Two, why can’t people question and discuss things around here without being labeled as sour lemons?

No one is saying Justify loses without RH’s help, we are saying that RH was ridden in a way to aid in his uncontested lead. Also does anyone think Baffert will admit to giving those type of instructions to a jockey, so why is anyone using him as evidence?

Maybe someone can hell me out with my questions, because you guys are perplexing.

I think the simplest answer is that many people just don't want it to be true, and it's a lot easier to lash out at others for talking about it than it is to think about it as a viable possibility. But again, if it's upsetting to think about, that's solely the fault of the people involved.

But anyways, now it's in the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... ab710fd218, thanks Starine for sharing it in the other thread) and there are bits like this:
Adding a layer of complexity was the fact that the other co-owner of Noble Indy, WinStar Farm, is also a majority owner of Justify. Thus WinStar Farm, unlike Repole, would have had no desire to see Noble Indy set a pace that would have hurt its prized horse’s chance at Triple Crown immortality.
so I'm feeling pretty justified in repeatedly warning about the conflict of interest problems with these sorts of ownerships, the unfairness to the bettors when horses aren't entered to win, and the bad optics of the industry pretending to ignore a race playing out the way that one did on a national scale. The national media loves sports conspiracy theories whether they are true or not. This is an uncomfortable conversation, which means it's probably also a necessary one.

I've been reading a lot of racing history lately, and I've been struck by the old "declared to win" system, which was abused in its own way but might have had a small bit of wisdom to it.
Tessablue
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:29 am
Location: Boston

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Treve » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:12 pm

I'm actually surprised it made the mainstream news. WaPo isn't even small-time mainstream, it's pretty significant.
I suppose the only saving grace now for racing is that not a lot of people actually care about the sport. On the flipside though if the non-racing public cares about/reads this it may just further turn them off.
The worst-case scenario is that people latch on to it, PETA makes a stink etc. etc. Best case scenario no one reads this and ignores it.

It's bad optics regardless.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
User avatar
Treve
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby firehorse » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:22 pm

Tessablue wrote:I think the simplest answer is that many people just don't want it to be true
I think it's more likely that they just don't care if it's true.
firehorse
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Treve » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:29 pm

firehorse wrote:
Tessablue wrote:I think the simplest answer is that many people just don't want it to be true
I think it's more likely that they just don't care if it's true.


If they didn't they wouldn't be so sore about it and fighting the possibility of it. They'd say "Yeah so what if it's true?" then shrug and move on. But they're acting like pointing this out is poopooing and raining on their parade and whatever other euphemisms have been used in this thread in the last 5 pages.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
User avatar
Treve
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Point Given » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:39 pm

tcw wrote:Thought I read somewhere that there's going to be a segment on Justify winning the TC on the NBC Nightly News... Anyone know if so, and if true when it's going to be broadcast?


Justify Still Gleaming After Triple Crown Heroics
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/227997/justify-still-gleaming-after-triple-crown-heroics

Baffert paraded Justify for a segment to appear on NBC's "Nightly News" Sunday, and then, similar to the meet-and-greet he did with American Pharoah three years ago, took his burnished charge past the line of photographers and writers so they took could lay hands on the boy wonder.
Point Given
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:14 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby firehorse » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:49 pm

Treve wrote:
firehorse wrote:
Tessablue wrote:I think the simplest answer is that many people just don't want it to be true
I think it's more likely that they just don't care if it's true.


If they didn't they wouldn't be so sore about it and fighting the possibility of it. They'd say "Yeah so what if it's true?" then shrug and move on. But they're acting like pointing this out is poopooing and raining on their parade and whatever other euphemisms have been used in this thread in the last 5 pages.


I think people who were rooting for Justify to win would just like to enjoy the moment and not have to listen to all the butthurt.
Last edited by firehorse on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
firehorse
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Treve » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:53 pm

No one is stopping them... there's a reason we are keeping this discussion outside of the Justify thread. Why go out of your way to come back to something that aggravates you over and over again if it's impeding your enjoyment?
Plus some people actually do care - Stark explained why, and his reason is fairly legitimate if not entirely rational, but at least I understand why he doesn't want it to be true.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
User avatar
Treve
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby firehorse » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:59 pm

Treve wrote:No one is stopping them... there's a reason we are keeping this discussion outside of the Justify thread. Why go out of your way to come back to something that aggravates you over and over again if it's impeding your enjoyment?
Plus some people actually do care - Stark explained why, and his reason is fairly legitimate if not entirely rational, but at least I understand why he doesn't want it to be true.


I don't know, maybe ask a Patriots fan :lol:
firehorse
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Treve » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:08 am

Patriots fans (including all those in my family) deserve the railing they get for their denial they get no pity from me :lol:
But from what I understood of Stark's answer to him it's less about Justify and his win, and more about the sport in general. Because I think most people agree (including in this thread those bringing up the issue) believe Justify would've won regardless.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
User avatar
Treve
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Belmont Saturday Watchalong thread

Postby Tessablue » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:18 am

Hi, I'm a Patriots fan. I know this song and dance really well and that's why I'm trying to warn people. If it just fizzles out from here, okay, we got lucky and everyone can pretend everything is fine up until it happens again. If not... man, it can get so much worse than a handful of rationally concerned posts on a niche forum.

And again, it's not about who won. It's about systemic problems in the sport. Justify could have won by 15 and it still wouldn't have been fair to the people who bet on his stablemate.
Last edited by Tessablue on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tessablue
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:29 am
Location: Boston

PreviousNext

Return to Racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

cron