GREYVITOS

Horsebagger
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 10:41 am

Someone try and defend to me why the connections are running this horse Saturday.

They're intent on destroying the horse. Sad.
stark
Posts: 3966
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed May 02, 2018 10:48 am

Out of the thousands of race horses running on the wrong surface, running over their heads, running at the wrong distance, why is it you pick on this ONE in particular on multiple occasions?

Disgruntled under-bidder perhaps?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 11:16 am

Horsebagger wrote:Someone try and defend to me why the connections are running this horse Saturday.

They're intent on destroying the horse. Sad.

Didn't they signal they would be mishandling him when they chose the Lexington as his first race back?

It's tough enough to be successful in this game when you do things right. It's impossible when you do everything wrong.
Horsebagger
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 11:20 am

stark wrote:Out of the thousands of race horses running on the wrong surface, running over their heads, running at the wrong distance, why is it you pick on this ONE in particular on multiple occasions?

Disgruntled under-bidder perhaps?
Why would an underbidder be critical of how a horse it didn't buy is managed?

We own a breeding position in his family, if you need to know to sleep better.
Horsebagger
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 11:21 am

thinair wrote:
Horsebagger wrote:Someone try and defend to me why the connections are running this horse Saturday.

They're intent on destroying the horse. Sad.

Didn't they signal they would be mishandling him when they chose the Lexington as his first race back?

It's tough enough to be successful in this game when you do things right. It's impossible when you do everything wrong.
My point exactly. I think there was some back and forth on here somewhere that I was told they would point for the Preakness if he didn't make the Derby field. As someone was suggesting that was a defense of the connections.

At least they'll get their Derby Day seats, I guess.
stark
Posts: 3966
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed May 02, 2018 11:25 am

Okay thanks.
I just thought it always sounded a lot more personal rather than general forum "handicapping talk"
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Horsebagger
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 11:42 am

stark wrote:Okay thanks.
I just thought it always sounded a lot more personal rather than general forum "handicapping talk"
Criticism of the treatment of racehorses shouldn't be limited to handicapping discussions, and this isn't my first criticism. I've just been paying more attention because of our interest. It's simple really. Sleep well.
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Wed May 02, 2018 12:55 pm

Okay, I’ll bite. The company line is most likely that the BC is at Churchill this year and they want to see if he likes the track. Of course there’s also that race they run on Foster Day for 3yo’s. If he were mine this is what I would have pushed for. An AOC for his first back, provided the money he won last fall doesn’t preclude eligiblity for one. If that worked out then the Affirmed. Do well there then the Los Al Derby. Now granted, the last named race moves around the calendar and could be run on Christmas this year for all I know but if it’s run during that Vacay in Cypress meet they run there in early July, it sounds like a good spot. Now if he still looks to be the promising sort he looked to be last fall, there are options. There is the Travers or if Collected doesn’t come back right and West Coast is still nice but not monstrous, keep him home and try the Pacific Classic over a track at which he’s already a stakes winner. If those last two spots seem too ambitious, there are spots on the Midwestern Derby Tour and then maybe a G1 try in the PA Derby. Instead, maybe NBC can do a feature on him on Saturday with the premise of what some connections will do to get a box on Derby Day using Queen’s Another One Bites The Dust as a soundtrack.
Kennedy
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 5:08 pm

I think one potential reason for running him here is that he does actually have a chance to win the race. The post won't help but it's not ridiculous to run a horse 3 weeks after they last ran. I can imagine that they see the Lexington as a race that he got something out of and they want to build on that?

He won't be my pick but he doesn't exactly jump off the page as in the wrong spot. In this race along you have Seahenge and Funny Duck who look a lot less likely at the conditions. I do think the class, distance and surface are all seemingly spot on for him.
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Wed May 02, 2018 5:17 pm

Kennedy wrote:I think one potential reason for running him here is that he does actually have a chance to win the race. The post won't help but it's not ridiculous to run a horse 3 weeks after they last ran. I can imagine that they see the Lexington as a race that he got something out of and they want to build on that?

He won't be my pick but he doesn't exactly jump off the page as in the wrong spot. In this race along you have Seahenge and Funny Duck who look a lot less likely at the conditions. I do think the class, distance and surface are all seemingly spot on for him.
It’s not that he doesn’t fit it’s the timing that’s off. The Lexington made little sense in the scheme of things. I don’t remember how many points he has but the Lexington would have given him only 20 more had he won. At best he would have been on the bubble. He ran the way one would expect, show speed and then get tired. Now they’re doubling down in a tougher spot three weeks after a race he, most likely, wasn’t ready for. Don’t put a Preakness run by these soon to be Eclipse Award winning owners. I’m sure Saturday’s race will be deemed as just the prep he needs.
Kennedy
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 5:32 pm

Curtis wrote: It’s not that he doesn’t fit it’s the timing that’s off. The Lexington made little sense in the scheme of things. I don’t remember how many points he has but the Lexington would have given him only 20 more had he won. At best he would have been on the bubble. He ran the way one would expect, show speed and then get tired. Now they’re doubling down in a tougher spot three weeks after a race he, most likely, wasn’t ready for. Don’t put a Preakness run by these soon to be Eclipse Award winning owners. I’m sure Saturday’s race will be deemed as just the prep he needs.
I'm willing to hold off chastisement until they do run him in the Preakness.

I don't spend any time near tracks these days so I don't see the horses in the flesh but I guess it's not actually clear to me that he wasn't ready for the Lexington. Or at least as ready as he might get. Are we thinking that the fact that he was 4th is proof that he wasn't ready?

He did have 8 timed workouts in a row. I'm not qualified to say how fit he was but trainers have gotten horses ready to race with 8 workouts on a regular cadence before.

I get that the Lexington was a tougher spot to come back than I would have chosen but now that he ran there, and ran okay, is it really a bad choice to run him back in a spot where he fits?
User avatar
Curtis
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Monroe, WA
Contact:

Wed May 02, 2018 6:18 pm

Kennedy wrote:
Curtis wrote: It’s not that he doesn’t fit it’s the timing that’s off. The Lexington made little sense in the scheme of things. I don’t remember how many points he has but the Lexington would have given him only 20 more had he won. At best he would have been on the bubble. He ran the way one would expect, show speed and then get tired. Now they’re doubling down in a tougher spot three weeks after a race he, most likely, wasn’t ready for. Don’t put a Preakness run by these soon to be Eclipse Award winning owners. I’m sure Saturday’s race will be deemed as just the prep he needs.
I'm willing to hold off chastisement until they do run him in the Preakness.

I don't spend any time near tracks these days so I don't see the horses in the flesh but I guess it's not actually clear to me that he wasn't ready for the Lexington. Or at least as ready as he might get. Are we thinking that the fact that he was 4th is proof that he wasn't ready?

He did have 8 timed workouts in a row. I'm not qualified to say how fit he was but trainers have gotten horses ready to race with 8 workouts on a regular cadence before.

I get that the Lexington was a tougher spot to come back than I would have chosen but now that he ran there, and ran okay, is it really a bad choice to run him back in a spot where he fits?
They don't need to run him in the Preakness to be chastised, they're already earning that. Again it isn't that they ran him, it's where. Honestly, he probably shouldn't have run until early May. To get him ready for the Lexington, they had to start him earlier and train him harder because he wasn't being eased back into it. The Lexington wasn't their first choice the Arkansas Derby was but it sounds as if Kitchingman at least talked them down from that. In my opinion they rushed him into a race that served no purpose. Now three weeks after that, he's going into what is probably a tougher spot. There are many ways to screw up a 3yo even if you can't make the Derby. In for a penny, in for a pound I guess. I'm expecting to see any day now that Loooch Racing is buying into Greyvitos.
Horsebagger
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 8:50 pm

Kennedy wrote:
Curtis wrote: It’s not that he doesn’t fit it’s the timing that’s off. The Lexington made little sense in the scheme of things. I don’t remember how many points he has but the Lexington would have given him only 20 more had he won. At best he would have been on the bubble. He ran the way one would expect, show speed and then get tired. Now they’re doubling down in a tougher spot three weeks after a race he, most likely, wasn’t ready for. Don’t put a Preakness run by these soon to be Eclipse Award winning owners. I’m sure Saturday’s race will be deemed as just the prep he needs.
I'm willing to hold off chastisement until they do run him in the Preakness.

I don't spend any time near tracks these days so I don't see the horses in the flesh but I guess it's not actually clear to me that he wasn't ready for the Lexington. Or at least as ready as he might get. Are we thinking that the fact that he was 4th is proof that he wasn't ready?

He did have 8 timed workouts in a row. I'm not qualified to say how fit he was but trainers have gotten horses ready to race with 8 workouts on a regular cadence before.

I get that the Lexington was a tougher spot to come back than I would have chosen but now that he ran there, and ran okay, is it really a bad choice to run him back in a spot where he fits?

Hey, maybe he moves forward off being short in the Lexington and let's see him win the race. More black type. Yippee. Although he already has a G3 on the resume, it only helps the catalog page for me.

For them.......the horse is coming off surgery. Why rush him back for another G3 race when there is a G1 in two weeks for a huge purse that was supposedly already the back-up plan? Or are they effectively admitting they had their evaluation of their horse all wrong to begin with and he doesn't belong in the Classics? Or, as I suspect and have stated previously, they have their weekend in Louisville already booked, so might as well make the trip, and damn whats best for the animal.

Let's hope the horse holds together, because it's not like Churchill ever preps the track to be hard and fast like a runway on Derby Day. Hopefully he wins, because my prediction is he's not making it very much farther without being back to the infirmary. I find their management of the horse sad, but what are you going to do.
Somnambulist
Posts: 7382
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:59 pm

Wed May 02, 2018 11:11 pm

Horsebagger wrote:Let's hope the horse holds together, because it's not like Churchill ever preps the track to be hard and fast like a runway on Derby Day. Hopefully he wins, because my prediction is he's not making it very much farther without being back to the infirmary. I find their management of the horse sad, but what are you going to do.
For the past year or so racing has really left a bitter taste in my mouth at times. I went to Aqueduct on a random day off this year and remembered all the reasons I actually love it. There isn't much in life that is able to fascinate you as child that you still are able to be fascinated with as an adult. The fact I was reminded of this by Aqueduct might mean I'm clinically insane but I've been giving a lot of thought to aftercare, horses, and everything along those lines in general.

At what point are the tracks and corporations just enablers? We don't need a 20 horse Derby and we don't need to send horses to the gate just so CDI's pockets are better padded. I understand: shareholders and profitability. Then again, I never thought I'd see the day major retailers and internet companies are being proactive on the gun control front. I wonder at what point the powers that be in racing realize public perception is everything and the power they hold to influence that everything.

There are so many horses out there like this that don't get attention because people aren't following them. No public shaming. It'd be impossible to keep track of them all. It's sad. I think you "shaming" them on any level is a good thing.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
stark
Posts: 3966
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sat May 05, 2018 4:12 pm

Tempting @ 15/1, drifting up from the 6/1 ML with about 10 minutes to post?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BaroqueAgain1
Posts: 9545
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm

Sat May 05, 2018 5:16 pm

He finished next-to-last, kind of looked like he was eased. :(
The Doctors Saint
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:35 pm

Sat May 05, 2018 11:53 pm

This horse has been to hell and back in his short life. I hope he hasn't been hurt again.
Roc525
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:04 am

Sun May 06, 2018 7:07 am

After reading the thread I completely understand what everyone was saying, but I cant say i didn't think this horse fit this race. Maybe my handicapping has just gotten worse, but i thought beforehand he had a chance.
Horsebagger
Posts: 1924
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:13 pm

I always find it helpful to take a look back and check in on horses that were topics of discussion for a time, and then the talk fell silent.

Any word on him?
User avatar
Diver52
Posts: 1595
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:44 pm
Location: Redlands, CA

Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:01 pm

Equibase doesn't even give the option of looking for workouts. That can't be good. :-(
I ran marathons. I saw the Taj Mahal by Moonlight. I drove Highway 1 in a convertible. I petted Zenyatta.
Post Reply