Belmont Stakes News & Notes - 2018

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Curtis
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Sat May 26, 2018 9:30 pm

Katewerk wrote:
luvsgeldings wrote: [snip]... they still have two weeks - shoot, by race time, we could be down to 4 or 5 in the field. (being sarcastic of course)
Like the 5 horse field in the 1973 Belmont. What a joke that was.
I dunno, I’m thinkin’ the real money is investing in cheese to go with all the whine.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat May 26, 2018 9:44 pm

I heard one of the TVG guys talking about the long-range weather forecast for the Belmont...and at this point there's a 30% chance of rain.
If the third leg of the Triple Crown is also hit by rain, I'm definitely gonna be on the Whine Wagon. :(
:P
thinair
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Sat May 26, 2018 9:46 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:I heard one of the TVG guys talking about the long-range weather forecast for the Belmont...and at this point there's a 30% chance of rain.
If the third leg of the Triple Crown is also hit by rain, I'm definitely gonna be on the Whine Wagon. :(
:P
Not as much as I will:-)
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat May 26, 2018 9:50 pm

Yeah, I won't have as much to gripe about compared to the folks who are actually there (like you?) and having to dodge falling water.
thinair
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Sat May 26, 2018 9:55 pm

It seems to me, some of the same people that all up in arms over Audible ( who I think would need heats to get 1.5 miles ) not running in the Belmont were the same people that were upset when Frosted became the first horse to actually take American Pharoah out of his comfort zone ( you know....the closest Frosted ever came to beating American Pharoah ).

People keep talking about these conglomerations of owners ( it's actually not really true as all that is really going on is that SF Racing, by the way I'm surprised inquiring minds don't seem interested in who is the money behind them, is selling the racing rights to people as they are only interested in breeding rights ) but it's Winstar, not Sol, or Jack Wolf, or whomever, as basically they are calling the shots ( or Coolmore…..but you know what I mean ). Nobody brings up Coaltown when they mention Citation. What sane owner would cost his horse a TC victory with another one of his runners? I don't believe anyone here would. I would certainly hope not.
thinair
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Sat May 26, 2018 9:56 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Yeah, I won't have as much to gripe about compared to the folks who are actually there (like you?) and having to dodge falling water.

I'm protected from rain:-)


Maggie, on the other hand.....but she's much tougher than me.
sweettalk
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Sat May 26, 2018 10:46 pm

funny you mention frosted - everyone talks abt frosted being the reason AP lost to keen ice, "exposed his weakness" blahblah, but he did the same in the belmont and failed to produce a losing effort from AP. reason #837 why i don't think frosted had as much to do with that 2nd place as he gets credit for.
thinair
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Sat May 26, 2018 11:16 pm

sweettalk wrote:funny you mention frosted - everyone talks abt frosted being the reason AP lost to keen ice, "exposed his weakness" blahblah, but he did the same in the belmont and failed to produce a losing effort from AP. reason #837 why i don't think frosted had as much to do with that 2nd place as he gets credit for.
He hardly "did the same in the Belmont" as in the Travers. In the Belmont, he kindly ceded the lead to American Pharoah and allowed him to gallop along. Sort of like how all legit challengers, especially those with speed, didn't contest the Classic.
stark
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Sat May 26, 2018 11:34 pm

thinair wrote:It seems to me, some of the same people that all up in arms over Audible ( who I think would need heats to get 1.5 miles ) not running in the Belmont were the same people that were upset when Frosted became the first horse to actually take American Pharoah out of his comfort zone ( you know....the closest Frosted ever came to beating American Pharoah ).

People keep talking about these conglomerations of owners ( it's actually not really true as all that is really going on is that SF Racing, by the way I'm surprised inquiring minds don't seem interested in who is the money behind them, is selling the racing rights to people as they are only interested in breeding rights ) but it's Winstar, not Sol, or Jack Wolf, or whomever, as basically they are calling the shots ( or Coolmore…..but you know what I mean ). Nobody brings up Coaltown when they mention Citation. What sane owner would cost his horse a TC victory with another one of his runners? I don't believe anyone here would. I would certainly hope not.
Good post, thanks for sharing.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
luvsgeldings
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Sat May 26, 2018 11:37 pm

ahhhh katewerk, you mention that '73 Belmont and that small field - so true - but Big Red could have faced 30 and it would not have mattered - not with that final time he put up - he was amazing - I could be wrong, but he still holds the fastest times in both the Derby and Belmont, right? and I think he had the Preakness too, except for some timing snafu - so he didn't get credit for that one, which is a shame. Secretariat was just too much. Sham was damn good. Real damn good. but Secretariat was something else entirely.


perhaps Justify will put up a Secretariat type performance in the Belmont. he could put on a real show in the final leg of the triple crown. so that in the end, it wouldn't have mattered who was or was not entered to run against him.
Tessablue
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Sun May 27, 2018 12:07 am

thinair wrote:It seems to me, some of the same people that all up in arms over Audible ( who I think would need heats to get 1.5 miles ) not running in the Belmont were the same people that were upset when Frosted became the first horse to actually take American Pharoah out of his comfort zone ( you know....the closest Frosted ever came to beating American Pharoah ).

People keep talking about these conglomerations of owners ( it's actually not really true as all that is really going on is that SF Racing, by the way I'm surprised inquiring minds don't seem interested in who is the money behind them, is selling the racing rights to people as they are only interested in breeding rights ) but it's Winstar, not Sol, or Jack Wolf, or whomever, as basically they are calling the shots ( or Coolmore…..but you know what I mean ). Nobody brings up Coaltown when they mention Citation. What sane owner would cost his horse a TC victory with another one of his runners? I don't believe anyone here would. I would certainly hope not.
Hey my family remembers Citation and Coaltown, we've been salty about it for three generations!

But I don't see any evidence to suggest that Audible would get 12f any worse than Justify, basically the only person unhappy about this decision seems to be myself, and I was perfectly happy with the race Frosted ran in the Travers (and I think Victor's ride doesn't get nearly enough criticism).

Audible would be the clear second choice, and he'd almost certainly be running in the race if he had different owners. Why does being upset with this situation- both the decision and the increasing consolidation of horses, which is a problem beyond this single race- merit so much derision? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

And to be clear, I'm only talking about Audible here. My Boy Jack would have been a non-factor and his situation is clearly different.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun May 27, 2018 1:31 am

Personally, I'd like to see Audible in the race, but I guess I'm not upset by his defection (let alone 'up in arms' :lol:).
It could very well be a business decision, but IMHO it's possible that the colt is not showing the 110% condition you want to see in a horse about to contest a 12-furlong classic over Big Sandy.
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Treve
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Sun May 27, 2018 5:18 am

Talking as if Audible were to run he'd beat Justify is a bit of a mystery to me. We don't know either way. We can speculate till the cows come home. Personally I'm in the camp that right now there aren't any known 3yos pointing to a mile and a half test that are better than Justify in terms of talent, conditioning and potential suitability. I'm really not certain he will win though, but I also believe that if he loses chances are it won't be because there's a better horse than him, or he can't get the distance. I think it'll be his campaign catching up to him.
I do think that it's a shame quality horses are being kept out of a Classic because a TC is on the line, however.
I want to see a spectacular performance, whatever the outcome is, or however it happens. Whether it's a TC champion by a nose after a stretch battle for the ages, or a freak performance no one saw coming from a long shot. But spectacular performances tend to come from more than a single exceptional horse running in a field of nobodies. No one says a field has to be big to be good but there should be more than just one good horse. Dunno if that makes sense.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
BigDonOKC
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Sun May 27, 2018 8:44 am

Tessablue wrote:
thinair wrote:It seems to me, some of the same people that all up in arms over Audible ( who I think would need heats to get 1.5 miles )
WHAT HEATS :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
not running in the Belmont were the same people that were upset when Frosted became the first horse to actually take American Pharoah out of his comfort zone ( you know....the closest Frosted ever came to beating American Pharoah ).

People keep talking about these conglomerations of owners ( it's actually not really true as all that is really going on is that SF Racing, by the way I'm surprised inquiring minds don't seem interested in who is the money behind them, is selling the racing rights to people as they are only interested in breeding rights ) but it's Winstar, not Sol, or Jack Wolf, or whomever, as basically they are calling the shots ( or Coolmore…..but you know what I mean ). Nobody brings up Coaltown when they mention Citation.
;) ;) What sane owner would cost his horse a TC victory with another one of his runners? I don't believe anyone here would. I would certainly hope not.
Hey my family remembers Citation and Coaltown, we've been salty about it for three

!

But I don't see any evidence to suggest that Audible would get 12f any worse than Justify, DON'T KNOW IF JUSTIFY WILL
basically the only person unhappy about this decision seems to be myself, and I was perfectly happy with the race Frosted ran in the Travers (and I think Victor's ride doesn't get nearly enough criticism).

Audible would be the clear second choice, and he'd almost certainly be running in the race if he had different owners. Why does being upset with this situation- both the decision and the increasing consolidation of horses, which is a problem beyond this single race- merit so much derision? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

And to be clear, I'm only talking about Audible here. My Boy Jack would have been a non-factor and his situation is clearly different.
Somnambulist
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Sun May 27, 2018 9:09 am

As for the mega-owner partnerships... well why would anyone that is on the outside of racing such as Tessa and myself wonder what money is backing what? Racing is an old boys club, like many industries, and when outside people ask for information lot of the time they don't get it. It's like some all big, secret, inside joke. I can't imagine wanting to over-think a talking point that I'll never know much about.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
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Squeaky
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Sun May 27, 2018 11:44 am

Ok I’llbite: who is the money behind SF Racing?
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Katewerk
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Sun May 27, 2018 12:33 pm

luvsgeldings wrote:ahhhh katewerk, you mention that '73 Belmont and that small field - so true - but Big Red could have faced 30 and it would not have mattered - not with that final time he put up - he was amazing - I could be wrong, but he still holds the fastest times in both the Derby and Belmont, right? and I think he had the Preakness too, except for some timing snafu - so he didn't get credit for that one, which is a shame. Secretariat was just too much. Sham was damn good. Real damn good. but Secretariat was something else entirely.


perhaps Justify will put up a Secretariat type performance in the Belmont. he could put on a real show in the final leg of the triple crown. so that in the end, it wouldn't have mattered who was or was not entered to run against him.
I posted that as a bit of a joke, but otoh... setting aside the time he ran in, had Secretariat faced a full field of high quality and possibly fresh contenders would he have still finished as many lengths ahead? Sham was done. Who else was there? I don't know, I was a kid at the time.

There are probably people here with knowledge of the depth of quality of that year's crop of 3 year olds who can speculate on that.
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Sparrow Castle
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Sun May 27, 2018 12:48 pm

I don’t think it’s any secret that the SF in SF Bloodstock stands for Soros Fund. There's got to be a lot of wealth there to take on the likes of Darley and Coolmore in the bloodstock industry. I think the China Horse Club also had a share in Justify’s breeding rights, but I guess WinStar owns the controlling interest.
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Turul
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Sun May 27, 2018 1:01 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:I don’t think it’s any secret that the SF in SF Bloodstock stands for Soros Fund. There's got to be a lot of wealth there to take on the likes of Darley and Coolmore in the bloodstock industry. I think the China Horse Club also had a share in Justify’s breeding rights, but I guess WinStar owns the controlling interest.
Well, George Soros, who is behind the Open Society Foundation, a global organization targeting countries it deems not being aligned with Soros's idea of a perfect society, has not enjoyed being welcome by open arms in many countries especially in Europe. His NGOs have been banned in many of them for interference of the country's internal affairs.

Of course investing in a horse breeding/racing operation is anybody's right if they have the means.

Wonder how Soros wants to fit horseracing into his global policies, though?
Looking into the eyes of Cigar was a life changing experience.
Somnambulist
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Sun May 27, 2018 1:27 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:I don’t think it’s any secret that the SF in SF Bloodstock stands for Soros Fund. There's got to be a lot of wealth there to take on the likes of Darley and Coolmore in the bloodstock industry. I think the China Horse Club also had a share in Justify’s breeding rights, but I guess WinStar owns the controlling interest.
I honestly don't know how I would know this. I barely use social media and read all the publications, but outside of seeing the name SF Racing it isn't like there are names easily attached to it. Unless I am missing something entirely obvious. Which is possible. It's crazy how easily we fall into one routine and don't realize there are better ways of learning.

I think a lot of people (not you, SC) forget that a lot of us here are on the way outside.
Last edited by Somnambulist on Sun May 27, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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