Mendelssohn

carole
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Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:16 am

The Irish Field @TheIrishField 45m ago
Aidan O'Brien reports that Mendelssohn will head straight to the Breeders Cup Classic following his second in Saratoga last night
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Treve
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Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:25 pm

Dang would've loved to see him run again. I wonder if they will race him another season... I hope so, but somehow doubt it.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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ElPrado2
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Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:30 pm

I don't think Mendelssohn is Arrogate's type.
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Mylute
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Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:50 pm

Treve wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:25 pm
Dang would've loved to see him run again. I wonder if they will race him another season... I hope so, but somehow doubt it.
I think it will depend on if he gets that Gr.I dirt win in the Classic. "Gr.I winner on turf and dirt" is something they'll want to boast about on his stud resume. Although, maybe Mendelssohn will be another Highland Reel...racing until age 5.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
stark
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Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:53 pm

How serious is it when AOB says he isn't 100% due to some lost training time before a big G1 race?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:48 pm

IIRC, O'Brien doesn't have a reputation for bullsh!tting reporters. If he said that Mendy lost some training time, then the colt probably did. He also tends to be a bit understated and modest about his horses' chances.
I have some hope that we could see Mendy race as a four-year-old. First, IMHO another year of growth and filling out would be good for him, possibly making him an even better racehorse.
Secondly, since Coolmore now has Caravaggio standing in Ireland, No Nay Never at Ashford (I think?) and Justify about to join that roster, there may not be as much pressure to get another Scat Daddy colt to the shed.
FlyToTheStars
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Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:28 am

I believe No Nay Never is in Ireland as well- I do not see him on Ashford roster.

I hope Mendy runs again next year- he just turned 3 on his actual birthday right before the Derby I think? I am sure he would mature as a 4 year old. Hoping for another season for this boy!
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Mylute
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Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:19 am

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:48 pm
IIRC, O'Brien doesn't have a reputation for bullsh!tting reporters. If he said that Mendy lost some training time, then the colt probably did. He also tends to be a bit understated and modest about his horses' chances.
I have some hope that we could see Mendy race as a four-year-old. First, IMHO another year of growth and filling out would be good for him, possibly making him an even better racehorse.
Secondly, since Coolmore now has Caravaggio standing in Ireland, No Nay Never at Ashford (I think?) and Justify about to join that roster, there may not be as much pressure to get another Scat Daddy colt to the shed.
I thought Jutsify was going to WinStar?

And also that virus.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
FlyToTheStars
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Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:20 am

It is between staying at Winstar or going to Ashford. It was even mentioned 'possibility of going to a different farm' in Horse County. I was just at Winstar last Friday and I asked someone if they could confirm and she said she is unsure of what the final plans are for him.

He was 'hanging' and the girl had to walk him often to get it to go back in repeatedly for photos.
BaroqueAgain1
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Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:00 pm

I guess he's just doing his part to "advertise" his special attributes? :lol:
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Mylute
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Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:49 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:00 pm
I guess he's just doing his part to "advertise" his special attributes? :lol:
"Um? I'm just trying to help y'all?! What's the problem!?"
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Treve
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:36 am

FlyToTheStars wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:28 am
I hope Mendy runs again next year- he just turned 3 on his actual birthday right before the Derby I think? I am sure he would mature as a 4 year old. Hoping for another season for this boy!
No he’s a later foal than that his foaling date is May 17th so well after the Derby even.
I would love for them to campaign him like Highland Reel. If he weren’t by Scat Daddy I’m almost certain they’d campaign him as an older even if he wins the Classic since Coolmore doesn’t hesitate to campaign the horses they own a while longer, as opposed to the horses they only purchase the breeding rights to.
But the Scat Daddy factor is what makes me a little pessimistic.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Treve
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:40 am

stark wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:53 pm
How serious is it when AOB says he isn't 100% due to some lost training time before a big G1 race?
Pretty serious if anything he’s known to be modest and completely understated so if he brings it up at all you know it has to be significant. It was talked about more in the British and Irish racing press even before Mendelssohn was announced for the Travers, than it was spoken about by American racing media though, but if you’ve followed his stats at all he has underperformed significantly in the European classics where he’s normally dominant. It was mentioned too by his assistant in that BH article before the race.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
stark
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:03 am

Treve wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:40 am
stark wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:53 pm
How serious is it when AOB says he isn't 100% due to some lost training time before a big G1 race?
Pretty serious if anything he’s known to be modest and completely understated so if he brings it up at all you know it has to be significant. It was talked about more in the British and Irish racing press even before Mendelssohn was announced for the Travers, than it was spoken about by American racing media though, but if you’ve followed his stats at all he has underperformed significantly in the European classics where he’s normally dominant. It was mentioned too by his assistant in that BH article before the race.
I guess I'm a little bit shocked that he entered and ran.
So many times we hear a trainer say....."we won't run if he's not 100%"
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
katmandu
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:51 pm

stark wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:03 am
Treve wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:40 am
stark wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:53 pm
How serious is it when AOB says he isn't 100% due to some lost training time before a big G1 race?
Pretty serious if anything he’s known to be modest and completely understated so if he brings it up at all you know it has to be significant. It was talked about more in the British and Irish racing press even before Mendelssohn was announced for the Travers, than it was spoken about by American racing media though, but if you’ve followed his stats at all he has underperformed significantly in the European classics where he’s normally dominant. It was mentioned too by his assistant in that BH article before the race.
I guess I'm a little bit shocked that he entered and ran.
So many times we hear a trainer say....."we won't run if he's not 100%"
There may be a difference between being 100% OK to run and 100% in terms of being "cranked".
carole
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:43 pm

I think the difference is that European trainers and owners in general are not as afraid to lose as the American ones when they get a really good horse. Of course I'm not saying that that's always the case (e.g. the effort to preserve Frankel's perfect record-that's not at all hating on the horse, I still love him and think he was spectacular!)
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mariasmon
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:51 pm

carole wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:43 pm
I think the difference is that European trainers and owners in general are not as afraid to lose as the American ones when they get a really good horse. Of course I'm not saying that that's always the case (e.g. the effort to preserve Frankel's perfect record-that's not at all hating on the horse, I still love him and think he was spectacular!)
Yes, this. After the Derby flop, they set the new main goal for him as BC Classic and that's what they're trying to win. They aren't going about it in the way we're used to seeing, but if it works out, it'll look genius.
BaroqueAgain1
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:23 pm

If he wasn't fully fit in the Travers, O'Brien should be pleased with his effort. He got tired after a mile, but he clearly has the speed to compete with American dirt horses. He just needs the fitness to continue that speed over 10 furlongs and this effort should move him toward that goal.
katmandu
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Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:09 pm

carole wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:43 pm
I think the difference is that European trainers and owners in general are not as afraid to lose as the American ones when they get a really good horse. Of course I'm not saying that that's always the case (e.g. the effort to preserve Frankel's perfect record-that's not at all hating on the horse, I still love him and think he was spectacular!)
It doesn't appear to be stylish of late, but trainers use to race horses to fitness. I think the dominance of breeding money vs. racing money has placed an undue importance on a horse's "race record". And the fewer races they run, the more important it becomes to win for breeding value.
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Treve
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Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:20 am

stark wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:03 am
Treve wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:40 am
stark wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:53 pm
How serious is it when AOB says he isn't 100% due to some lost training time before a big G1 race?
Pretty serious if anything he’s known to be modest and completely understated so if he brings it up at all you know it has to be significant. It was talked about more in the British and Irish racing press even before Mendelssohn was announced for the Travers, than it was spoken about by American racing media though, but if you’ve followed his stats at all he has underperformed significantly in the European classics where he’s normally dominant. It was mentioned too by his assistant in that BH article before the race.
I guess I'm a little bit shocked that he entered and ran.
So many times we hear a trainer say....."we won't run if he's not 100%"
That’s the American way, not the European way. (and even then how many times does an American trainer say that and enter the horse anyway?) As others have stated below, Europeans race to train, and in particular O’Brien is known to do this, he never expects his first time starters to win for example, because he starts them when they’re about 70%. They never attempt to get them fully fit or fully cranked before every single race, but rather try to have them peak for their big seasonal goal(s). American trainers have started to make prep races a goal unto themselves where Europeans in general, and O’Brien in particular uses a prep as a stepping stone and an actual prep towards a specific goal. So while winning their prep is a ‘bonus’ in the mentality I’ve observed, it’s not the goal itself when entering, they want to get the horse to run well and get something to add to their foundation.

In this particular case as well, they said before the race that they were hoping to give Mendelssohn another positive experience on dirt to boost his confidence again and build upon his positive experience from the Dwyer. And by positive experience they meant, not getting body slammed into a sandwich out of the gate, roughed up several times afterwards before inhaling mud for 9f then being pulled up. Another thing they mentioned is of course they cannot train for dirt at home regarding things like kickback. They can work on gate speed, but as the AT said, their only way to train for dirt is to run in dirt races. Plus it didn’t help as both he and AOB have repeated that they had to lay off the horses and go easy on them (for those who could work at all) when they were affected by the virus so they were playing catch up on the fitness.

The primary goal here seems to have been to add to his bottom and fitness, give him a good impression, I think he did well. It’s an effort that probably gave him a fair bit but that he can still improve upon. Also shows he is consistent since he earned a 101 for his Dwyer and a 100 here adding to his 106 UAE Derby. Speaking of is he the only 3yo to have earned triple digit BSFs for all his starts on dirt?
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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