Sol Kumin

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Treve
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Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:20 pm

To answer those questions accurately you'd need more information than what we currently have on hand, I think. V might have some interesting insights?
And of course, the answer would vary anyway, depending on the accountant as stark said, or your CEO and racing managers, heh.

But what I mean by missing info is for example... buying into a small piece... how much money (if any) is he expected to pony up for the horse's training and upkeep? Vet care and/or treatments in the event of illness or injury? How much of the share does he get from earnings? How much does he get when selling a horse or striking a stallion deal?

On the surface it does seem like it could be a decent strategy since you're not sinking a huge chunk of money in one single horse... if something happens to said horse, you have others to fall back on, you're not putting all your eggs in the same basket, and I'm assuming that you're doing that at a fraction of the cost of buying 50 of 600k+ yearlings or 2yos in training. Likewise when something does happen to a horse he's likely not bearing the full weight of the cost on his own. He might not be making a ton of money but I don't know if he's losing a ton either. (And quite frankly it's difficult to know without knowing the full details of his arrangements). I mean from a stock market perspective would you invest everything you have in a single thing or company? Or would you invest in gold, streaming, luxury tech etc. and within those, are you gonna for example just buy a lot of Apple shares or are you gonna get a few of those as well as Amazon, Netflix, Google, Sony, Samsung etc.?

It's highly possible that if he does this primarily for the thrill of the winner's circle it doesn't even matter to him if he doesn't do much beyond break even to continue investing in this expensive hobby. You'd have to ask him what his endgame is.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
stark
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Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:34 am

thinair wrote:There's one person that's happy, that's for sure. The shocking thing is that he's not in that picture.
Waited patiently, so who is it, we've just got to know!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Horsebagger
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Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:10 am

stark wrote:
thinair wrote:There's one person that's happy, that's for sure. The shocking thing is that he's not in that picture.
Waited patiently, so who is it, we've just got to know!

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ku ... e-justify/


Track the narcissistic promotional photos in the next 5 weeks on Twitter and Instagram and it becomes more obvious.
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:43 pm

I'd guess that it's "that guy" who recently was not mentioned in another thread except, Horsebagger, you didn't mention YouTube. ^^^

Didn't realize the partners bought in on this one too...must have been sometime last summer.

Amy Zimmerman @NeverSettleTV
26m26 minutes ago
Another racing day, another San Luis Rey Downs fire survivor winner. Kenjisstorm gets it done in his first race back since the Lilac Fire, winning race 4 @santaanitapark #SLRDStrong

Santa Anita: Kenjisstorm wins comeback
Kenjisstorm, in his first start for trainer Phil D'Amato, won an allowance race with a $75,000 claiming option in Thursday's fourth race.

Ridden by Flavien Prat, Kenjisstorm ($9) stalked the pace to the turn and pulled clear in the stretch to win by 2 1-4 lengths over the graded stakes winner Free Rose.

Kenjisstorm ran a mile on turf in 1:33.94. Thursday's race was Kenjisstorm's first start since a fourth in the Grade 2 Eddie Read Stakes at Del Mar last July. A 6-year-old horse, Kenjisstorm was previously trained by Richard Baltas, who trains Free Rose.

Kenjisstorm, who has won 5 of 29 starts, races for a partnership that includes Head of Plains Partners and KM Racing Enterprises.
http://live.drf.com/nuggets/41460-santa ... s-comeback

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pd ... 18USA4.pdf
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Squeaky
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Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 pm

Still very cryptic...what is the name of the person we are talking about?
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:19 pm

zoecadman Retweeted
Bradley Weisbord @BradWeisbord
4h4 hours ago
Bradley Weisbord Retweeted Sue Morris Finley
G2W/G1P UNI breezed Head and Head with G3W Elysea’s World. Both Fillies targeting @TheNYRA races in April for the Kumin/Brown duo. The content on @WatchXBTV is flat out awesome. @iradortiz @jjcjockey

Sue Morris Finley @suefinley
Love watching these @WatchXBTV workouts on the @theTDN website.
Image
stark
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Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:35 pm

on a somewhat related note from Little Red Feather's Billy Koch.....

LRF Racing Club
‏@lrfracing

LRF is excited to announce we have acquired an interest in Justify, Mendelssohn, Bolt d'Oro, Good Magic and Magnum Moon in a multi-million dollar package. Syndication to follow. @DRFPrivman @raypaulick #afd
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
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Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:36 pm

stark wrote:on a somewhat related note from Little Red Feather's Billy Koch.....

LRF Racing Club
‏@lrfracing

LRF is excited to announce we have acquired an interest in Justify, Mendelssohn, Bolt d'Oro, Good Magic and Magnum Moon in a multi-million dollar package. Syndication to follow. @DRFPrivman @raypaulick #afd
I haven't seen this nonsense until now but today is April 1st....right?

So even syndicates are now making fun of Sol ( who is a friend of mine....though I make fun of him too )?
stark
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Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:39 pm

thinair wrote:
stark wrote:on a somewhat related note from Little Red Feather's Billy Koch.....

LRF Racing Club
‏@lrfracing

LRF is excited to announce we have acquired an interest in Justify, Mendelssohn, Bolt d'Oro, Good Magic and Magnum Moon in a multi-million dollar package. Syndication to follow. @DRFPrivman @raypaulick #afd
I haven't seen this nonsense until now but today is April 1st....right?

So even syndicates are now making fun of Sol ( who is a friend of mine....though I make fun of him too )?
You're just too damn smart for this game!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:50 pm

Kumin Sends out Trio in Search of Derby Glory

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... erby-glory
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:45 am

Horsebagger wrote:Two questions.....

1 - Is he genuinely making money with this buying into a minority piece of horses in training strategy? Seems to have a piece of something in every big stake. And a lot of non-stakes horses as well in NY. Buying into Justify has to have cost a lot, right?

2 - Does he even care or is he happy with the winner's circle photo collection he's garnered?
“To me, and the couple guys that I do this with, it’s more fun to be in the winner’s circle when Justify wins the Derby holding the trophy,” said Sol Kumin, a hedge fund executive who runs Head of Plains. “So you kind of have to pick. If this became my full-time job, which it won’t, I would have a different program, focusing more on the stallion business and breeding. Now we still want to make money, and so far we’ve done well, but it’s hard.”
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Horsebagger
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Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:03 am

stark wrote:
Horsebagger wrote:Two questions.....

1 - Is he genuinely making money with this buying into a minority piece of horses in training strategy? Seems to have a piece of something in every big stake. And a lot of non-stakes horses as well in NY. Buying into Justify has to have cost a lot, right?

2 - Does he even care or is he happy with the winner's circle photo collection he's garnered?
“To me, and the couple guys that I do this with, it’s more fun to be in the winner’s circle when Justify wins the Derby holding the trophy,” said Sol Kumin, a hedge fund executive who runs Head of Plains. “So you kind of have to pick. If this became my full-time job, which it won’t, I would have a different program, focusing more on the stallion business and breeding. Now we still want to make money, and so far we’ve done well, but it’s hard.”
So the translation relative to the answers to my questions likely appear to be:

1 - NO
2 - YES
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Sparrow Castle
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:47 pm

Another purchase, another stable name...

Madaket Stables Buys into Midnight Bisou
Madaket Stables of Sol Kumin has purchased a minority interest in Grade I winner Midnight Bisou (Midnight Lute), it was announced Monday. The GI Santa Anita Oaks winner will race under the ownership of Bloom Racing Stable, Madaket Stables and Allen Racing LLC when she runs in the GII Mother Goose S. for trainer Steve Asmussen Saturday.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ma ... ight-bisou
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mariasmon
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:07 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:Another purchase, another stable name...

Madaket Stables Buys into Midnight Bisou
Madaket Stables of Sol Kumin has purchased a minority interest in Grade I winner Midnight Bisou (Midnight Lute), it was announced Monday. The GI Santa Anita Oaks winner will race under the ownership of Bloom Racing Stable, Madaket Stables and Allen Racing LLC when she runs in the GII Mother Goose S. for trainer Steve Asmussen Saturday.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ma ... ight-bisou
Madaket Stables is not new. He's been using it since at least 2016. That partnership co-owns or co-owned Ascend, Bowies Hero, A Raving Beauty (GER), Mia Mischief, Long On Value, Ivy Bell, Ballagh Rocks, Hawkish, La Signare (FR), Ezmosh, Fanciful Angel (IRE) and Catholic Boy, among others.
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Sparrow Castle
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:25 pm

mariasmon wrote:
Sparrow Castle wrote:Another purchase, another stable name...

Madaket Stables Buys into Midnight Bisou
Madaket Stables of Sol Kumin has purchased a minority interest in Grade I winner Midnight Bisou (Midnight Lute), it was announced Monday. The GI Santa Anita Oaks winner will race under the ownership of Bloom Racing Stable, Madaket Stables and Allen Racing LLC when she runs in the GII Mother Goose S. for trainer Steve Asmussen Saturday.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ma ... ight-bisou
Madaket Stables is not new. He's been using it since at least 2016. That partnership co-owns or co-owned Ascend, Bowies Hero, A Raving Beauty (GER), Mia Mischief, Long On Value, Ivy Bell, Ballagh Rocks, Hawkish, La Signare (FR), Ezmosh, Fanciful Angel (IRE) and Catholic Boy, among others.
Thanks. I guess I should be writing them down. Can't keep track of all of his stable names from memory.
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Squeaky
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:13 pm

He names them after places in Nantucket where he has a large summer home.
stark
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Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Good interview with Sol from a couple weeks ago, starts at the 25 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6skSc67fRDQ
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Sparrow Castle
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Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:48 am

Some food for thought in this article...

Sol Kumin: stunning (and controversial) rise of racing’s new ‘best friend’
It was back in 2014 when Jay Hanley warned trainer Chad Brown about one of the partners in his ownership group.

“I told him I had a guy who was seriously competitive and had the financial means to go far in the game if he gets bitten by the racing bug,” Hanley said. “Chad looked at me skeptically, but I told him this guy could keep him really busy.”

Four years later, Sol Kumin is living up to Hanley’s words and keeping not just Brown but trainers from one end of the country to the other quite busy.

What started out with Kumin entering into a modest partnership with Hanley and a few other friends has evolved into an amazing, unprecedented and controversial ascent to the highest levels of the sport.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/arti ... st-friend/
Horsebagger
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Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:48 am

Sparrow Castle wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:48 am
Some food for thought in this article...

Sol Kumin: stunning (and controversial) rise of racing’s new ‘best friend’
It was back in 2014 when Jay Hanley warned trainer Chad Brown about one of the partners in his ownership group.

“I told him I had a guy who was seriously competitive and had the financial means to go far in the game if he gets bitten by the racing bug,” Hanley said. “Chad looked at me skeptically, but I told him this guy could keep him really busy.”

Four years later, Sol Kumin is living up to Hanley’s words and keeping not just Brown but trainers from one end of the country to the other quite busy.

What started out with Kumin entering into a modest partnership with Hanley and a few other friends has evolved into an amazing, unprecedented and controversial ascent to the highest levels of the sport.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/arti ... st-friend/
Never met the man, but heard many good things (as widely confirmed in the article) about him. Good guy from what I am told, which I don't doubt at all since I would have a hard time finding fault with any former lacrosse player from Johns Hopkins. Everybody seems to love having him in the winners circle, but it's a hard spot to find anyone without a smile on their face and in a great mood, isn't it? And of course, no fan of the industry could/should have any complaint about how he spends money and brings people to the game. Kudos to him are deserved, but that doesn't get you an owner's eclipse award.

I'm still curious if he's making money, even more so now as the article makes it clear that at least some of his interests are limited to racing rights. How much did he have to pay for a minority, non- controlling interest in Justify given it did not involve stallion rights? Is that the same structure of all of his 'interests'? Regardless, as I've stated previously, he obviously attributes significant value to the intangible elements of his success, as does most every owner in this industry. Making money is not why most owners find themselves in this business.

But I am one of those guys who is skeptical of his and his team's overt support for the pursuit of an Eclipse award for top owner. At the moment, statistics are meaningless because of his mostly fractured interests. He admits in the article having a minority interest is different than having a controlling interest, and this to me is the line that has to be addressed for consideration of partnership interests for eclipse awards. Unless a partnership has a controlling/managing interest, it's horses wins shouldn't be compared to those wins for owners who have success with horses they control/manage. To what degree does the managing member of a minority interest non-control owner of an interest within another partnership of owners deserve to be recognized above the rest of the universe of owners? In theory, Kumin could hold less than 1% of personal ownership of any one horse in any of the various SP/Madakat partnerships. It's like saying Terry Finley deserves an owner eclipse when West Point has success, and while I like Terry a lot, that's a profound 'no way'.
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Sparrow Castle
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Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:08 am

Yeah, Horsebagger, I think you’re spot on with this. I don’t even know how you’d sort out his fractional ownership interests when these partnerships form mega-partnerships that may be limited to racing or breeding interests only. From what I’ve read his contribution to ownership is at least mostly financial, don't see how much actual decision-making he does in managing these horses. I don’t know how you can compare what he’s doing to any of the past winners of this award, not Godolphin, Ramsey, Zayat, Phipps, Lael, Juddmonte, off the top of my head.

I get that some want to applaud what he’s done for the sport, and I can support that. I appreciate his enthusiasm and how much he enjoys the sport and the people he’s brought in and all that. Maybe that should earn him an Eclipse Special Award. But not Outstanding Owner for a model that can’t yet be well-defined in all its parts and pieces for voters, and may not be sustainable over time. But there's always eclipse award winners that make me wonder. In the meantime, I’m glad he’s having fun with his money and for what he’s doing for the sport.
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