Sol Kumin

stark
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Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:45 am

Horsebagger wrote:Two questions.....

1 - Is he genuinely making money with this buying into a minority piece of horses in training strategy? Seems to have a piece of something in every big stake. And a lot of non-stakes horses as well in NY. Buying into Justify has to have cost a lot, right?

2 - Does he even care or is he happy with the winner's circle photo collection he's garnered?
“To me, and the couple guys that I do this with, it’s more fun to be in the winner’s circle when Justify wins the Derby holding the trophy,” said Sol Kumin, a hedge fund executive who runs Head of Plains. “So you kind of have to pick. If this became my full-time job, which it won’t, I would have a different program, focusing more on the stallion business and breeding. Now we still want to make money, and so far we’ve done well, but it’s hard.”
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Horsebagger
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Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:03 am

stark wrote:
Horsebagger wrote:Two questions.....

1 - Is he genuinely making money with this buying into a minority piece of horses in training strategy? Seems to have a piece of something in every big stake. And a lot of non-stakes horses as well in NY. Buying into Justify has to have cost a lot, right?

2 - Does he even care or is he happy with the winner's circle photo collection he's garnered?
“To me, and the couple guys that I do this with, it’s more fun to be in the winner’s circle when Justify wins the Derby holding the trophy,” said Sol Kumin, a hedge fund executive who runs Head of Plains. “So you kind of have to pick. If this became my full-time job, which it won’t, I would have a different program, focusing more on the stallion business and breeding. Now we still want to make money, and so far we’ve done well, but it’s hard.”
So the translation relative to the answers to my questions likely appear to be:

1 - NO
2 - YES
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Sparrow Castle
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:47 pm

Another purchase, another stable name...

Madaket Stables Buys into Midnight Bisou
Madaket Stables of Sol Kumin has purchased a minority interest in Grade I winner Midnight Bisou (Midnight Lute), it was announced Monday. The GI Santa Anita Oaks winner will race under the ownership of Bloom Racing Stable, Madaket Stables and Allen Racing LLC when she runs in the GII Mother Goose S. for trainer Steve Asmussen Saturday.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ma ... ight-bisou
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mariasmon
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:07 pm

Sparrow Castle wrote:Another purchase, another stable name...

Madaket Stables Buys into Midnight Bisou
Madaket Stables of Sol Kumin has purchased a minority interest in Grade I winner Midnight Bisou (Midnight Lute), it was announced Monday. The GI Santa Anita Oaks winner will race under the ownership of Bloom Racing Stable, Madaket Stables and Allen Racing LLC when she runs in the GII Mother Goose S. for trainer Steve Asmussen Saturday.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ma ... ight-bisou
Madaket Stables is not new. He's been using it since at least 2016. That partnership co-owns or co-owned Ascend, Bowies Hero, A Raving Beauty (GER), Mia Mischief, Long On Value, Ivy Bell, Ballagh Rocks, Hawkish, La Signare (FR), Ezmosh, Fanciful Angel (IRE) and Catholic Boy, among others.
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Sparrow Castle
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:25 pm

mariasmon wrote:
Sparrow Castle wrote:Another purchase, another stable name...

Madaket Stables Buys into Midnight Bisou
Madaket Stables of Sol Kumin has purchased a minority interest in Grade I winner Midnight Bisou (Midnight Lute), it was announced Monday. The GI Santa Anita Oaks winner will race under the ownership of Bloom Racing Stable, Madaket Stables and Allen Racing LLC when she runs in the GII Mother Goose S. for trainer Steve Asmussen Saturday.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ma ... ight-bisou
Madaket Stables is not new. He's been using it since at least 2016. That partnership co-owns or co-owned Ascend, Bowies Hero, A Raving Beauty (GER), Mia Mischief, Long On Value, Ivy Bell, Ballagh Rocks, Hawkish, La Signare (FR), Ezmosh, Fanciful Angel (IRE) and Catholic Boy, among others.
Thanks. I guess I should be writing them down. Can't keep track of all of his stable names from memory.
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Squeaky
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:13 pm

He names them after places in Nantucket where he has a large summer home.
stark
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Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Good interview with Sol from a couple weeks ago, starts at the 25 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6skSc67fRDQ
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Sparrow Castle
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Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:48 am

Some food for thought in this article...

Sol Kumin: stunning (and controversial) rise of racing’s new ‘best friend’
It was back in 2014 when Jay Hanley warned trainer Chad Brown about one of the partners in his ownership group.

“I told him I had a guy who was seriously competitive and had the financial means to go far in the game if he gets bitten by the racing bug,” Hanley said. “Chad looked at me skeptically, but I told him this guy could keep him really busy.”

Four years later, Sol Kumin is living up to Hanley’s words and keeping not just Brown but trainers from one end of the country to the other quite busy.

What started out with Kumin entering into a modest partnership with Hanley and a few other friends has evolved into an amazing, unprecedented and controversial ascent to the highest levels of the sport.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/arti ... st-friend/
Horsebagger
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Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:48 am

Sparrow Castle wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:48 am
Some food for thought in this article...

Sol Kumin: stunning (and controversial) rise of racing’s new ‘best friend’
It was back in 2014 when Jay Hanley warned trainer Chad Brown about one of the partners in his ownership group.

“I told him I had a guy who was seriously competitive and had the financial means to go far in the game if he gets bitten by the racing bug,” Hanley said. “Chad looked at me skeptically, but I told him this guy could keep him really busy.”

Four years later, Sol Kumin is living up to Hanley’s words and keeping not just Brown but trainers from one end of the country to the other quite busy.

What started out with Kumin entering into a modest partnership with Hanley and a few other friends has evolved into an amazing, unprecedented and controversial ascent to the highest levels of the sport.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/arti ... st-friend/
Never met the man, but heard many good things (as widely confirmed in the article) about him. Good guy from what I am told, which I don't doubt at all since I would have a hard time finding fault with any former lacrosse player from Johns Hopkins. Everybody seems to love having him in the winners circle, but it's a hard spot to find anyone without a smile on their face and in a great mood, isn't it? And of course, no fan of the industry could/should have any complaint about how he spends money and brings people to the game. Kudos to him are deserved, but that doesn't get you an owner's eclipse award.

I'm still curious if he's making money, even more so now as the article makes it clear that at least some of his interests are limited to racing rights. How much did he have to pay for a minority, non- controlling interest in Justify given it did not involve stallion rights? Is that the same structure of all of his 'interests'? Regardless, as I've stated previously, he obviously attributes significant value to the intangible elements of his success, as does most every owner in this industry. Making money is not why most owners find themselves in this business.

But I am one of those guys who is skeptical of his and his team's overt support for the pursuit of an Eclipse award for top owner. At the moment, statistics are meaningless because of his mostly fractured interests. He admits in the article having a minority interest is different than having a controlling interest, and this to me is the line that has to be addressed for consideration of partnership interests for eclipse awards. Unless a partnership has a controlling/managing interest, it's horses wins shouldn't be compared to those wins for owners who have success with horses they control/manage. To what degree does the managing member of a minority interest non-control owner of an interest within another partnership of owners deserve to be recognized above the rest of the universe of owners? In theory, Kumin could hold less than 1% of personal ownership of any one horse in any of the various SP/Madakat partnerships. It's like saying Terry Finley deserves an owner eclipse when West Point has success, and while I like Terry a lot, that's a profound 'no way'.
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Sparrow Castle
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Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:08 am

Yeah, Horsebagger, I think you’re spot on with this. I don’t even know how you’d sort out his fractional ownership interests when these partnerships form mega-partnerships that may be limited to racing or breeding interests only. From what I’ve read his contribution to ownership is at least mostly financial, don't see how much actual decision-making he does in managing these horses. I don’t know how you can compare what he’s doing to any of the past winners of this award, not Godolphin, Ramsey, Zayat, Phipps, Lael, Juddmonte, off the top of my head.

I get that some want to applaud what he’s done for the sport, and I can support that. I appreciate his enthusiasm and how much he enjoys the sport and the people he’s brought in and all that. Maybe that should earn him an Eclipse Special Award. But not Outstanding Owner for a model that can’t yet be well-defined in all its parts and pieces for voters, and may not be sustainable over time. But there's always eclipse award winners that make me wonder. In the meantime, I’m glad he’s having fun with his money and for what he’s doing for the sport.
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Kurenai
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Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:03 am

Personally, I would only give the Eclipse award to controlling interests. It's something entirely different to pick out a horse before it runs, calling all the shots, than to invest a share in a standout maiden winner. The way this is set up it's like the stock market with share holders.

I don't mind the way he's doing it, but I wouldn't hand him the Eclipse award for buying into horses.
Horsebagger
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Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:58 am

Kurenai wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:03 am
Personally, I would only give the Eclipse award to controlling interests. It's something entirely different to pick out a horse before it runs, calling all the shots, than to invest a share in a standout maiden winner. The way this is set up it's like the stock market with share holders.

I don't mind the way he's doing it, but I wouldn't hand him the Eclipse award for buying into horses.
I agree about the part regarding controlling interests. And the ownership entity should be recognized, not any one individual. Per my example, West Point can win an eclipse for top owner if they have a good year with multiple majority owned horses having success, not Terry Finley.

I disagree, however, about your point regarding the method of acquisition. It's fine to buy horses that have already run. You're still eligible to be rewarded as owner for what that horse does subsequently. If a guy has a stable full of million dollar yearling purchases who win everything, that's fine to compare to a guy who's created a stable by buying a stable full of horses after their respective first starts. Ownership/control is ownership/control, no matter how it's constructed.

Mostly, I object to the Agent negotiating you into ownership by buying minority non-controlling interests, and then taking up the flag and promoting you as an eclipse award candidate for top owner. I think that's more about self-promotion for the Agent than it is about the guy putting up the money, to be honest.
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Kurenai
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Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:04 am

I totally agree with you. It's fine to buy horses that raced already (see for example Jackson with Curlin and Rachel)! But as you pointed out, that is something entirely different. I don't want to award the Eclipse to someone who just casts a wide net with buying into 10% shares. What's next, getting a 1% racing share, so someone can have all the G1 winners? :roll: :lol:
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Mylute
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Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:34 pm

Seriously though who is this guy and what's the deal?

I've read through this thread and I just?
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Kurenai
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Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:07 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:34 pm
Seriously though who is this guy and what's the deal?

I've read through this thread and I just?
Read that article to get an idea https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/arti ... st-friend/
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Squeaky
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Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:17 pm

He is a very wealthy hedge fund manager who buys into a lot of already successful or promising horses as a minority partner as his primary business model. He names his “stables” after places on Nantucket Island, where he built a large home. Monomoy, Head of Plains, Madaket, and Sheep’s Pond are all places on the island.
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CoronadosQuest
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Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:44 pm

He looked so happy when Monomoy Girl won the Distaff. Good for him! If he has a passion for horse's racing, good! We need people who have a passion in them racing and not just a passion in them breeding.
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