2018 Hall Of Fame

BaroqueAgain1
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:56 pm

Blind Luck, Gio Ponti, Corey Nakatani for me. And maybe it's about time for Craig Perret to get in?
Do I want to leave Havre de Grace, one of the three distaffers who became HOTY in that historic three year run, off my ballot? :?
It's interesting that some of us feel more strongly about Blind Luck, the Little Chestnut Engine Who Could, running with her tail flagged like an Arabian.
IMHO Mark Casse is eventually going to get in, but I'm all for letting him wait a few more years.
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Ballerina
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:43 pm

David Whiteley, Craig Perret, Havre de Grace
WaquoitNBroadBrush
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:38 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Blind Luck, Gio Ponti, Corey Nakatani for me. And maybe it's about time for Craig Perret to get in?
Perret had that one amazing hot streak near the end of his career, but before that I remember him most as a solid out-of-the-national-spotlight rider rather than a superstar jockey. Actually, I think this year may be Whiteley's year at long last. Too soon for Casse, and Shirreffs, as we all know, had his Seasons in the Sun (Terry Jacks -- 1974) with just one horse.
katmandu
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:30 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Blind Luck, Gio Ponti, Corey Nakatani for me. And maybe it's about time for Craig Perret to get in?
Do I want to leave Havre de Grace, one of the three distaffers who became HOTY in that historic three year run, off my ballot? :?
It's interesting that some of us feel more strongly about Blind Luck, the Little Chestnut Engine Who Could, running with her tail flagged like an Arabian.
IMHO Mark Casse is eventually going to get in, but I'm all for letting him wait a few more years.
You don't have to leave HdG off your ballet, you can vote them all in this year (not limited). I thought Gio Ponti was a superb racehorse, and had a lot of respect for HdG, just couldn't believe there had been no mention of Blind Luck. She was amazing, her record speaks for itself.

http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-hall-bal ... all-button
BaroqueAgain1
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:44 pm

:? I keep seeing John Shirreffs referred to as a 'one-hit wonder,' but he also had Giacomo, Tiago, Life Is Sweet and Gormley, not to mention the fabulous but gone-too-soon sprinter Mentor Cane. And those are just off the top of my head. I suspect a real dive into his record will find some more very good horses I missed.
Old Bones
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:40 pm

Much as I like HDG it's Blind Luck and Gio Ponti for me.
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Curtis
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:29 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote::? I keep seeing John Shirreffs referred to as a 'one-hit wonder,' but he also had Giacomo, Tiago, Life Is Sweet and Gormley, not to mention the fabulous but gone-too-soon sprinter Mentor Cane. And those are just off the top of my head. I suspect a real dive into his record will find some more very good horses I missed.
The best horse he may have trained, at least for a time, was Bertrando. Still not a Hall of Famer. Tommy Doyle was nominated a few years back. I’d put him in first and he’s marginal.
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Starine
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:44 pm

Heavenly Prize - Whiteley - Albarado
stark
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:59 am

From DRF......

In an absolutely stunning development, Heavenly Prize is the lone contemporary inductee into the 2018 National Museum of Racing Hall of Fame, this despite a change in voting rules this year that seemed as though it would make it easier for a backlogged group of deserving candidates to finally get in.

Heavenly Prize was one of 10 horses, trainers, and jockeys on the final ballot, the others being jockeys Robby Albarado, Corey Nakatani, and Craig Perret; trainers Mark Casse, John Shirreffs, and David Whiteley, and the racehorses Blind Luck, Gio Ponti, and Havre de Grace.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Horsebagger
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:25 pm

stark wrote:From DRF......

In an absolutely stunning development, Heavenly Prize is the lone contemporary inductee into the 2018 National Museum of Racing Hall of Fame, this despite a change in voting rules this year that seemed as though it would make it easier for a backlogged group of deserving candidates to finally get in.

Heavenly Prize was one of 10 horses, trainers, and jockeys on the final ballot, the others being jockeys Robby Albarado, Corey Nakatani, and Craig Perret; trainers Mark Casse, John Shirreffs, and David Whiteley, and the racehorses Blind Luck, Gio Ponti, and Havre de Grace.
Not overtly concerned about this result. At some point, there has to be a line drawn to distinguish a true elite Hall of Fame and not become a popularity contest to achieve the honor.

And I'd make the same case for every sports current HOF voting more generally.
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Curtis
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:49 pm

I’d have to agree. Heavenly Prize is worthy enough and I wouldn’t have lost sleep over Blind Luck if she had been voted in. While all of their careers were commendable and they all deserve respect, none of the others—equine or Human—deserve the honor, in my opinion.
stark
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:55 pm

Jeremy Balan
‏@BH_JBalan

If you’re a voter and don’t think Corey Nakatani deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, I don’t know how much confidence I have in your skills to evaluate anything in the game.

https://twitter.com/BH_JBalan/status/985901245083693057
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:09 pm

stark wrote:Jeremy Balan
‏@BH_JBalan

If you’re a voter and don’t think Corey Nakatani deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, I don’t know how much confidence I have in your skills to evaluate anything in the game.

https://twitter.com/BH_JBalan/status/985901245083693057
I don’t do twitter, nor do I have a vote, so in all due respect to Jeremy.....If it were a turf jock HOF, I agree but then again, let’s consider Fernando Toro or heck, even Brice Blanc. Now I think C Nak is roughly comparable to Toro and he’s better than Blanc and you can probably make a case that he’s similar to guys like Eddie Maple or Alex Solis. But just because they got the benefit of the doubt for being marginal candidates but less headstrong doesn’t mean the door should be left wide open. Has Jeremy taken up the good fight for P Val? I think Mr. Balan needs to get out from behind his keyboard.
Somnambulist
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:11 pm

You should join in the Twitterverse specifically just to watch the trainwreck it is.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
stark
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:19 pm

stark wrote:Jeremy Balan
‏@BH_JBalan

If you’re a voter and don’t think Corey Nakatani deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, I don’t know how much confidence I have in your skills to evaluate anything in the game.

https://twitter.com/BH_JBalan/status/985901245083693057
Upon further review, that is a pretty damn impressive list of Graded Stakes victories but not sure what counts in the mind of a voter.
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Result ... 339&rbt=TB
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:52 pm

I can read tweets I just don’t choose to join in on the fun. I guess when C Nak comes up, the first two things that run through my head are Amazing Turf Jock and Hothead, not always in that order. HOF’s are always interesting to say the least. I once had a discussion with a baseball writer about Tommy John. His view is that TJ fell just short as a pitcher. I countered that I didn’t necessarily disagree but his name is linked to a surgical procedure that has changed the face of baseball and while he didn’t perform the surgery, TJ is the model of a patient that was able to be successful afterwards and it was performed on him back in the days when surgery was done with a knife and a fork. I argued whose name more often shows up in baseball related news during a season Cy Young or Tommy John? It’s probably close but my money is on TJ. Now if that doesn’t define fame, I don’t know what does and before someone wants to make a case for Mario Mendoza, TJ’s fame isn’t for not being able to hit water if he fell out of a boat.
Izvestia
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Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:49 am

I’m always overwhelmed at how many get in each year, and it really feels like a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately vote - so I’m elated that Heavenly Prize got in. Because if you saw her run in the 90s, you wouldn’t have a doubt. G1 winner at 2, 3, and 4; eight G1 wins; never worse than 3rd in 18 starts. She was very good. Not that the others weren’t, but she’s certainly deserving.
WaquoitNBroadBrush
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Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:39 am

Curtis wrote:I can read tweets I just don’t choose to join in on the fun. I guess when C Nak comes up, the first two things that run through my head are Amazing Turf Jock and Hothead, not always in that order. HOF’s are always interesting to say the least. I once had a discussion with a baseball writer about Tommy John. His view is that TJ fell just short as a pitcher. I countered that I didn’t necessarily disagree but his name is linked to a surgical procedure that has changed the face of baseball and while he didn’t perform the surgery, TJ is the model of a patient that was able to be successful afterwards and it was performed on him back in the days when surgery was done with a knife and a fork. I argued whose name more often shows up in baseball related news during a season Cy Young or Tommy John? It’s probably close but my money is on TJ. Now if that doesn’t define fame, I don’t know what does and before someone wants to make a case for Mario Mendoza, TJ’s fame isn’t for not being able to hit water if he fell out of a boat.
I've always wondered if any low-profile baseball player ever had ALS before Lou Gehrig but never got his name attached to the disorder because he wasn't a star and didn't play for the most celebrated team in the game. In the UK and other English-speaking places where baseball players aren't household names, incidentally, ALS is known as "motor neuron disease." If Jesse Owens had died of it, it's a good bet that Jesse Owens' Disease would have stuck as a popular name for it outside the US.

Remember "Steve Blass Disease"? Blass was a pretty good pitcher for the Pirates -- a solid, Tommy John-like starter -- who, over the course of one off-season, seemingly forgot how to pitch. He just couldn't throw a strike and the few strikes he did throw were hammered. For a while, you'd get sportswriters and sportscasters referring to other pitchers in similar situations as having that "disease," but I haven't seen or heard the phrase in years, maybe because Blass has been retired for 45 years, maybe because the affliction is so rare that the opportunity to refer to it doesn't come up frequently enough to keep the reference recognizable.
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Curtis
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Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 pm

I remember Steve Blass and his affliction well. I have Sirius/XM radio and the MLB station broadcasts games from all over MLB throughout the course of a season. The last Pirate game I heard, Blass was one of the announcers. He actually talked about the end of his career and says the same thing now he did then, he doesn’t know what happened. A more recent example was a Cardinal pitcher, Rick Ankiel. He was such an accomplished hitter he actually went down to the low minors and became an outfielder and had a decent MLB career at that point. The Dodgers had a real spark plug of a second baseman in the ‘80’s, Steve Sax, who from the beginning of 1983 until roughly August of 1984 couldn’t throw consistently to first base. He went on to a very good career and became a very reliable fielder but when his name comes up, people only seem to remember the throwing problems. The same thing happened to Twins and then Yankee second baseman, Chuck Knoblach in the ‘90’s and it effectively ended his career. In the ‘80’s, the Mets had a catcher—Mackey Sasser, I believe—that all of a sudden couldn’t throw the ball back to the pitcher. I think all of these men got some psychiatric help of various degrees but only Sax and Ankiel were able to overcome it, albeit Ankiel at another position. I have heard of Steve Sax Syndrome but it hasn’t lasted like Steve Blass Disease which only seems to come up when suddenly a pitcher, chronically, can’t find the plate. I still stand by my assessment, though. Tommy John is on the borderline as a pitcher anyway, and he was a better pitcher post-surgery. I’d put him in Cooperstown and play up the now known as Tommy John Surgery on the plaque.
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