BC Complaint Thread

stark
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:52 am

Possible discussion topics for this thread include, but are not limited to, the following.

1. It's ridiculous that the west coast gets so many Breeders Cups.
2. It's ridiculous that Bob Baffert won so many races.
3. It's ridiculous that Mike Smith won so many races.
4. It's ridiculous what that morning line maker was thinking.
5. It's ridiculous that there isn't more international representation, Japan, Australia et al.
6. It's ridiculous to think that Del Mar could handle the crowds.
7. It's ridiculous to think the course remodel could handle those field sizes.
8.
9.
10.

;)
Enjoy the weekend
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Treve
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:59 am

In all fairness I think this year has the most international runners of any prior.
But I will however take 1., 5. and 7. to start with.
On 2. I saw an interesting video report about Bode Miller's setup and how it compares to BB and it has got me thinking a lot.
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Somnambulist
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:06 pm

Treve wrote: On 2. I saw an interesting video report about Bode Miller's setup and how it compares to BB and it has got me thinking a lot.
Now he's just awful and worthy of complaint in all ways, shapes, and forms.

It's not really the West Coast's fault that NYRA hasn't bid for a BC in years. Truly I don't know why NYRA would. The track hosting it has to pay the BC for the honor, I believe, and I don't think it would draw enough attention here for them to break even on it... with the new schedule they'd have to install lights since it's dark. It's up against two NFL teams, two NBA teams, the possibility of an MLB team World Series appearance, and two NHL teams. Most people don't want to spend dime to freeze their asses off.

The traffic at Del Mar will be bad. When I was there yeas ago I wondered how they would do it, but it's a nightmare getting out of Belmont, too. And Hempstead Turnpike is a lot uglier than SoCal.
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BaroqueAgain1
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:15 pm

Most people don't want to spend dime to freeze their asses off.

1) Even if we were suggesting another east coast track besides Belmont, IMHO the answer usually comes down to weather.
Racing is an outdoor sport. Even Sheikh Mo hasn't tried to build a domed track. If you want more people to come to the track (beyond hardcore fans), you generally don't want them to be miserable. Not if you ever want them to come to a track again. :P :lol:
5) I think we get a good Euro representation because their flat season is pretty much done. But for the Australians, their spring racing is really powering up now. We got to see Winx win the Cox Plate for the third time last weekend, and this week sees the last preps before next week's Melbourne Cup, The Race That Stops a Nation. No surprise the Aussies stay home.
Japan is also running their top end-of-year races now. Kitasan Black might have been a great contender for the Turf, but he just won the Tenno Sho Autumn two days ago, and the Japan Cup is next on his schedule.
6) and 7) Yeah, I never thought Del Mar was an ideal spot for this meet. Won't be surprised if there are some unhappy people come Sunday, with horror stories about the facilities. And that turf course...wonder how the Euros will like racing on what, for them, will feel like the grassy version of a bull ring. :P
Tessablue
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:47 pm

I mean, I've spent a lot of money to freeze my ass off at football games, and I had a great time at the Monmouth BC. I would also suspect that Belmont in particular is a big draw to international crowds because New York is a pretty direct and common flight- I remember seeing quite a lot of international fans at the 2005 BC. And wasn't it over 100 degrees at Santa Anita just last week? No track is perfect year-to-year, which is yet another reason to maintain a healthy rotation. And just speaking personally, I think standing outside in the moderate cold is more fun than paying extra thousands to travel cross-country to stand in the heat...

Anyways, this is the latest I could find on NYRA's perspective: https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray- ... ince-2005/

I suspect it's the prime-time Classic that drives these decisions more than anything.
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:09 pm

Up until a few months ago NYRA was controlled by NYS. They haven't bid on it at all... it wasn't a matter of it being afforded to NYRA. NYRA hasn't wanted it. I imagine their focus is changing now that it's back under private control and AQU is built to withstand more turf racing. Belmont will be redesigned and I'm sure a BC bid will be had then.

I've lived on LI all my life but the weather in '01 was awful. I can't remember being more cold at an event in my life. '05 was better. Attendance figures for the Belmont based BC's were lower than the rest, I thought. There isn't a draw for a more casual fan in this area. Quite honestly living in the area Belmont is kind of a bitch to get to. There are a tremendous amount of things to host an event like this in this area that I don't think people realize.

When only Churchill and SA are bidding to have it this is what we get. Del Mar was awarded it so I don't think they're looking to punish the East Coast. Where else could even reasonably have it? Gulfstream?
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BaroqueAgain1
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:13 pm

From things I've read/heard, I've gotten the impression that, since it was "redeveloped," Gulfstream no longer has the grandstand capacity a BC would need. It's become a shopping mall with a racetrack attached. :?
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:14 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:From things I've read/heard, I've gotten the impression that, since it was "redeveloped," Gulfstream no longer has the grandstand capacity a BC would need. It's become a shopping mall with a racetrack attached. :?
Considering the BC's Superbowl-ization of the event you'd think it would be perfect for them, then!

To some extent I see Belmont going this way. The sport itself and the way it's marketed is not viable long term, and they'll try to sell this on being an experience.
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serenassong
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:23 pm

Somnambulist wrote:
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:From things I've read/heard, I've gotten the impression that, since it was "redeveloped," Gulfstream no longer has the grandstand capacity a BC would need. It's become a shopping mall with a racetrack attached. :?
Considering the BC's Superbowl-ization of the event you'd think it would be perfect for them, then!

To some extent I see Belmont going this way. The sport itself and the way it's marketed is not viable long term, and they'll try to sell this on being an experience.
Think i read somewhere that they are trying to develop part of the land at Belmont Park?
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Tessablue
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:23 pm

Somnambulist wrote:Up until a few months ago NYRA was controlled by NYS. They haven't bid on it at all... it wasn't a matter of it being afforded to NYRA. NYRA hasn't wanted it. I imagine their focus is changing now that it's back under private control and AQU is built to withstand more turf racing. Belmont will be redesigned and I'm sure a BC bid will be had then.

I've lived on LI all my life but the weather in '01 was awful. I can't remember being more cold at an event in my life. '05 was better. Attendance figures for the Belmont based BC's were lower than the rest, I thought. There isn't a draw for a more casual fan in this area. Quite honestly living in the area Belmont is kind of a bitch to get to. There are a tremendous amount of things to host an event like this in this area that I don't think people realize.

When only Churchill and SA are bidding to have it this is what we get. Del Mar was awarded it so I don't think they're looking to punish the East Coast. Where else could even reasonably have it? Gulfstream?
The handle at Belmont was huge according to the article, and it also noted that they really do want it. And with this latest push to supersize the event, why not hold it at a nationally recognized track with a massive capacity? I'd imagine there's fault on both sides here, and I doubt the BC particularly cares about reaching out to a wide range of tracks now that they have a system that works (and is most lucrative) for them. But if we're cramming the BC into Del Mar and Keeneland, it seems like that should open up a lot of options. I don't really care if we get it up in the northeast though, just the east coast is fine for now. It just seems terribly opposed to the spirit of the event to hold it at the same track six times in nine years.

We'll see where it ends up for 2019 though- I wonder why it hasn't been announced yet? That article said it was expected to be early this year.
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:36 pm

I'm sure NYRA does want it, but they were already operating under a deferred prosecution in 2005 and the state assumed control right after. They've done the right thing by not bidding.

It does seem one sided but when the don't bid I'm not sure how much blame can fall on them.
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Somnambulist
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:56 pm

serenassong wrote:Think i read somewhere that they are trying to develop part of the land at Belmont Park?
NYS released this earlier in the year:
https://esd.ny.gov/empire-state-develop ... lmont-park

Everything from soccer stadiums to a new Islanders home has been tossed around for development in the whole complex. Although I think the Islanders are looking at that again now. BUT, that has been talked about for longer than I've been alive.
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Treve
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:52 pm

To be fair, Keeneland's was a success. Dunno how Gulfstream would fair though.
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Senator L
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:08 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:From things I've read/heard, I've gotten the impression that, since it was "redeveloped," Gulfstream no longer has the grandstand capacity a BC would need. It's become a shopping mall with a racetrack attached. :?
They're working on it with portable stands. Never count out Frankie
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:29 pm

My only complaint is that I can't slow down time to properly soak in the aura.

Love the week leading up to the Breeders' Cup. I should have taken the week off work just to study up!
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bare it all
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:23 pm

My complaint: win or lose, this race is the swan song for many horses I’d love to see race into next year.
Tessablue
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:26 pm

Working ~30 hours in two days is not very amenable to handicapping :(
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:52 pm

Tessablue wrote:Working ~30 hours in two days is not very amenable to handicapping :(
Seriously. I just sat down for the first time today. I don't even think I'll be home in time to see any of tomorrow. I guess I can stream it from the train.

I don't even remember the last time I didn't handicap the BC. On the upside, I'm so poor right now it's probably better that I'm not tempted to bet.
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Treve
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:54 pm

Glad to hear i'm not the only one who had a crazy work week and couldn't do any handicapping worthy of the name :lol:
I did manage to catch part of the stream this morning and got a glimpse of some of the horses and commentary but didn't have time to actually sit down and write/look at them more closely.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
Tessablue
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Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:00 pm

Yeah I'm just hoping I'll be able to get home in time to watch tomorrow's races, can't remember the last time that happened. I like the extra races for the most part, but missing up to four BC races every year is really a downer.
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