The Preakness

firehorse
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Sat May 20, 2017 10:11 pm

Hats off to the winner but I thought Classic Empire ran like a champ, would really like to see him win another big 3 year old race this year.
Kay16
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Sat May 20, 2017 10:27 pm

The connections agree. No excuses for Always Dreaming.

https://www.americasbestracing.net/the- ... onnections
MySaladDays
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Sat May 20, 2017 10:41 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote: I hope he gets some time off, and we see a refreshed (but not TOO fresh :P) colt in the Summer Classics.
Like Super Saver, his career will be over by the end of Fall 2017. a Pletcher specialty--- creating value for selling and breeding. We are not talking Mandella or Jerkens here.

Pletcher will have another 200+ horses in his barn to lightly race then retire to the shed soon enough.

Of course, our horses being the drug addicts we have turned them into, they can't perform on short rest like the ones who aren't consistently drugged....the recovery time is just not there.
BigCountry
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Sat May 20, 2017 11:46 pm

MySaladDays wrote:
BaroqueAgain1 wrote: I hope he gets some time off, and we see a refreshed (but not TOO fresh :P) colt in the Summer Classics.
Like Super Saver, his career will be over by the end of Fall 2017. a Pletcher specialty--- creating value for selling and breeding. We are not talking Mandella or Jerkens here.

Pletcher will have another 200+ horses in his barn to lightly race then retire to the shed soon enough.
FWIW, of his 15 graded stakes wins so far this year, more than half are with 4yo+ horses. In addition, the number of horses he's trained to win Eclipse Awards as older horses dwarfs the number of 2yo Eclipse winners he's had.
Admin
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Sun May 21, 2017 12:43 am

Spahny wrote:With the draw the race set up for Classic Empire to pressure Always Dreaming all the way around and that is what the jock did. JL rode it like it was a two horse race and when he put the favorite away it looked like he thought he had the race won. He might have moved too early. I think that is what Admin might have been referring to in this thread. But I'm not going there. I thought the race was over at the 1/8th pole too. Then CE hung the final sixteenth. Out of gas. But very game.

Cloud Computing was not exactly flying home. He edged past a very tired horse that actually showed heart and fought back as well as he could when collared and passed. I can't imagine this is going to be a very highly rated Preakness.

Always Dreaming was under pressure on the inside. I don't think he liked that much. He quit. It was only his fifth race. Hopefully he is back to fight again.
Actually, I'm just lost. The poster indicated surprise at AD going to the front. Isn't that his thing, and what he did in the Derby? I didn't imagine he'd be anywhere but the front, so thought she meant being surprised at CE being up there pressing the pace.

Bummer for Casse. He had to think like we did, that his colt had it won. This isn't the strongest group of males, but think this race proved CE is at the head of the class. That said, it'll be a little weird to see him ranked as such in the NTRA poll when he lost the Derby and Preakness and won just a single race this year.

Congrats to Serling I suppose, but he lets his fanship of Brown cloud his handicapping. He maybe gotten lucky this time, but picking PJ as the Derby winner? I guess he got back what he lost on the Derby.

What else? Oh, yeah, I think the best 3yo period is a filly on layoff in Hollendorfer's barn. And Mandella's filly I suspect will return from her Oaks showing that she's better too.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun May 21, 2017 1:10 am

Well then...speaking of fillies, do you know yet whether Songbird is headed to the Beholder, or to the Ogden Phipps? ;)
Can't wait to see Unique Bella return to the races. The colts this year have been so-so IMHO, so I'm looking forward to all the Stellar fillies & mares bringing the fireworks.
tcw
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Sun May 21, 2017 1:31 am

Jerry Bailey mentioned on TV before the race that he had spoken with Julien L. and the plan was to hit the gas pedal with CE from the start -- no secret, and that's just exactly what he did. But I would agree with those that say CE is currently at the top of his class, which probably isn't saying all that much considering. Should CC, however, come back and win the Belmont and perhaps other big 3yo races during the next several months, then obviously he will jump up. One last thing... I truly wonder had CE been in the B2 barn this past winter and spring if we would have seen different results at this point? In some ways CE reminds me of American Pharaoh (versatility, etc.) and their pedigrees are also very similar.
Kay16
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Sun May 21, 2017 2:19 am

Admin wrote:
Spahny wrote:With the draw the race set up for Classic Empire to pressure Always Dreaming all the way around and that is what the jock did. JL rode it like it was a two horse race and when he put the favorite away it looked like he thought he had the race won. He might have moved too early. I think that is what Admin might have been referring to in this thread. But I'm not going there. I thought the race was over at the 1/8th pole too. Then CE hung the final sixteenth. Out of gas. But very game.

Cloud Computing was not exactly flying home. He edged past a very tired horse that actually showed heart and fought back as well as he could when collared and passed. I can't imagine this is going to be a very highly rated Preakness.

Always Dreaming was under pressure on the inside. I don't think he liked that much. He quit. It was only his fifth race. Hopefully he is back to fight again.
Actually, I'm just lost. The poster indicated surprise at AD going to the front. Isn't that his thing, and what he did in the Derby? I didn't imagine he'd be anywhere but the front, so thought she meant being surprised at CE being up there pressing the pace.

Bummer for Casse. He had to think like we did, that his colt had it won. This isn't the strongest group of males, but think this race proved CE is at the head of the class. That said, it'll be a little weird to see him ranked as such in the NTRA poll when he lost the Derby and Preakness and won just a single race this year.

Congrats to Serling I suppose, but he lets his fanship of Brown cloud his handicapping. He maybe gotten lucky this time, but picking PJ as the Derby winner? I guess he got back what he lost on the Derby.

What else? Oh, yeah, I think the best 3yo period is a filly on layoff in Hollendorfer's barn. And Mandella's filly I suspect will return from her Oaks showing that she's better too.

I think that just shows how not that great this group of males are and how unlucky CE has been. CE is definitely the top of this class and should be a force later on. As talented as that filly you speak of is, she's not beating anything near better than these males in her races so far, so I'll reserve saying she's better. Even Rachel Alexandra didn't prove lengths better as many thought she would against the poor crop of males and older males she faced. People are quick to forget the difference between males and females in this sport sometimes.


But no one is looking hopeful against Arrogate at this point that's for sure.
Horsebagger
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Sun May 21, 2017 7:11 am

Somnambulist wrote:Who cares, he's a cancer on the sport. He dishes it so he can theoretically take it.

I feel like feeling bad for him is like feeling bad for my clients whining about money when they own 5 homes and a Bentley.
A cancer? whoa back....way overboard, imo. Andy can be abrasive at times in defending his opinion (publicly and privately), but I've yet to find anyone in the sport who says anything about him other than he's their friend. His job is to often be critical, and he is. Even when he's talking about friends (i.e. Chad Brown). He is very open about his friendship with Chad and while he often lands on a CB horse, well, Chad seems to win a lot. And Andy doesn't hesitate to point out often that Chad gets over bet, and often leans in another direction because Chad horses offer no value on a day to day basis in New York.

And those suggesting Practical Joke was a bad opinion......he was one of 19 losing horses on Derby Day so there were a lot of those that day. But he was hardly embarrassed, running 5th at 30-1 and likely has some big wins ahead before his career is over.

Not sure he deserves the vitriol on the day he picked a $29 horse without taking any virtual victory laps that i've seen.

And I would consider him a friend as well, so does that minimize my personal opinion to defend him? That's up to everyone else.
Admin
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Sun May 21, 2017 7:56 am

Horsebagger wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:Who cares, he's a cancer on the sport. He dishes it so he can theoretically take it.

I feel like feeling bad for him is like feeling bad for my clients whining about money when they own 5 homes and a Bentley.
A cancer? whoa back....way overboard, imo. Andy can be abrasive at times in defending his opinion (publicly and privately), but I've yet to find anyone in the sport who says anything about him other than he's their friend. His job is to often be critical, and he is. Even when he's talking about friends (i.e. Chad Brown). He is very open about his friendship with Chad and while he often lands on a CB horse, well, Chad seems to win a lot. And Andy doesn't hesitate to point out often that Chad gets over bet, and often leans in another direction because Chad horses offer no value on a day to day basis in New York.

And those suggesting Practical Joke was a bad opinion......he was one of 19 losing horses on Derby Day so there were a lot of those that day. But he was hardly embarrassed, running 5th at 30-1 and likely has some big wins ahead before his career is over.

Not sure he deserves the vitriol on the day he picked a $29 horse without taking any virtual victory laps that i've seen.

And I would consider him a friend as well, so does that minimize my personal opinion to defend him? That's up to everyone else.
I picked PJ to hit the board, but think that picking him to win was a reach. Don't you think Chad will cut him back in distance now? I'm not surprised he finished nearer to the front of the pack than the latter (since I picked him to do so) but there's not a whole lot to brag about finishing third and fourth when it's 8 lengths back. Was it a length or two more back to fifth?

I sent no vitriol Serling's way, just his fanship becomes clear when he picked 2 diff Brown horses to win these 2 races. It reminded me of the other times I've seen a Brown bias in his picks and tweets. It's something I'd keep in mind if I were listening to him for any handicapping advice.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
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Big Ten
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Sun May 21, 2017 12:23 pm

I didn't like Cloud Computing for the reason because he lost to Irish War Cry and J Boys Echo who both finished terribly in the Ky Derby. But I finally rewatched the entire replay with sound this time and Javier is da man. I expected Conquest Money to take the lead and he didn't. I really can't rely on these Millennials. Julien is too weak. I am not much older than these Millennials but I grew up being spoiled by Jerry Bailey in his prime. Chris McCarron, Pat Day, and Laffit Pincay Jr in his twilight.

Funny thing is every time I lose a race, I buy something from Best Buy right after. I got a PS4 slim right after the Derby and a $200 iPhone SE last night (my 11th smartphone in my current collection). My first iPhone since the 4 since I am an Android guy at heart. My LG V20 (T-Mobile) and Google Pixel (Verizon) are my daily drivers with the LG G5, iPhone SE, and Samsung Galaxy S7 edge as backups. My other hobby has always been about gadgets ever since 2004. So I really don't mind losing at all. DoorDash, Postmates, UberEats, GrubHub, and Caviar is easier money to make than Uber and Lyft. No worries of getting mugged.

Going to still watch the Pacific Classic and BC Classic in Del Mar just to watch Arrogate. Belmont has now completely lost its luster this year.
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
Admin
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Sun May 21, 2017 12:54 pm

I know it's the horse that matters, but I really really hate this name.
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blamethewinner
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Sun May 21, 2017 1:05 pm

Andy being called a "Cancer" by a malcontent bottom feeder.

Andy being insulted for picking a horse every Thorograph player was using in the Derby who ran a totally credible 5th at 30-1.

A complete imbecile lamenting he didn't like the winner despite writing 5000 words about the race in the preceding 3 weeks then including some impertinent anecdote about Best Buy.

Complaints about the Preakness winner's name.

Complaints about the Belmont.

This thread is on fire!
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Turul
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Sun May 21, 2017 2:15 pm

Spahny wrote: Cloud Computing was not exactly flying home. He edged past a very tired horse that actually showed heart and fought back as well as he could when collared and passed. I can't imagine this is going to be a very highly rated Preakness.

Always Dreaming was under pressure on the inside. I don't think he liked that much. He quit. It was only his fifth race. Hopefully he is back to fight again.
Full agreement here. CC opportunistically used the race to beat CE who slogged out the Derby and Preakness while he was sitting in his barn.

I can't appreciate "strategies" like this. Only the coward and opportunistic take advantage like this. It is not sportsmanlike.

I very much doubt Brown will enter CC in the Belmont.
Looking into the eyes of Cigar was a life changing experience.
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Prairie Bayou
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Sun May 21, 2017 2:28 pm

firehorse wrote:Hats off to the winner but I thought Classic Empire ran like a champ, would really like to see him win another big 3 year old race this year.
As did I. He ran a great race. Certainly he is much better than his Derby performance. Though all the trouble he had in that race he ran his heart out in Baltimore.
"AND ALYSHEBA AMERICA'S HORSE HAS DONE IT!!!" ~ Tom Durkin 1988 Breeder's Cup Classic
stark
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Sun May 21, 2017 2:35 pm

bare it all wrote:
I think the biggest disappointment is Gunnevera. I thought that horse was better than he's shown.

Gunnevera bled in Preakness, per Antonio Sano. Horse will ship to Florida on Monday and point to Saratoga meet.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Sun May 21, 2017 2:38 pm

102 BSF
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Sun May 21, 2017 2:41 pm

Nice recap! :lol:
blamethewinner wrote:Andy being called a "Cancer" by a malcontent bottom feeder.

Andy being insulted for picking a horse every Thorograph player was using in the Derby who ran a totally credible 5th at 30-1.

A complete imbecile lamenting he didn't like the winner despite writing 5000 words about the race in the preceding 3 weeks then including some impertinent anecdote about Best Buy.

Complaints about the Preakness winner's name.

Complaints about the Belmont.

This thread is on fire!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
BlindLucky
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Sun May 21, 2017 3:45 pm

Turul wrote:
Spahny wrote: Cloud Computing was not exactly flying home. He edged past a very tired horse that actually showed heart and fought back as well as he could when collared and passed. I can't imagine this is going to be a very highly rated Preakness.

Always Dreaming was under pressure on the inside. I don't think he liked that much. He quit. It was only his fifth race. Hopefully he is back to fight again.
Full agreement here. CC opportunistically used the race to beat CE who slogged out the Derby and Preakness while he was sitting in his barn.

I can't appreciate "strategies" like this. Only the coward and opportunistic take advantage like this. It is not sportsmanlike.


I very much doubt Brown will enter CC in the Belmont.
So where's the hate for Casse and World Approval, who won the Dixie earlier on the card and has been sitting in the barn since April 2?
Or Moquett and Whitmore, who won the Maryland Sprint Stakes and has been sitting in the barn since April 15?
Or Bill Mott and Yoshida, who won the James W. Murphy Stakes and hasn't run since April 9?
Or hell, how about Arrogate coming into last year's BC Classic on 2+ months rest?
Or does the "winner didn't run two weeks ago and is therefore a coward" angle only apply to the Preakness and/or Belmont?

The Derby/Preakness/Belmont is not an actual series, no matter how much we pretend it is. I expect this "coward" stuff from Facebook comments where people don't understand that it's three distinct races in three separate states at three different tracks under three different racing jurisdictions, but here? Should Chad Brown have instructed the jock to take back if a horse that ran in the Derby looked like it was going to win? Or out of deference to Derby runners, should the field have been confined to Classic Empire, Lookin at Lee, Gunnevera, Always Dreaming, and Hence? That sure would have been exciting.

Owners/trainers enter where they think they have the best shot of getting to the wire first. That's what horse racing is all about. Classic Empire is a game horse with guts who got run down in the stretch by a horse who didn't run in the clusterf*** of a Derby they had this year. Oh well, it happens. Not often, but it happens.

I'm more interested in the fact that Chad Brown won the Preakness with his first starter in the race, and that Mclean's Music (who I think is a really good looking stallion) got his first Grade 1 winner from his first crop in a Classic.
Photos from my racing travels: ThoroughbredJourney.com
Admin
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Sun May 21, 2017 4:17 pm

blamethewinner wrote:Andy being called a "Cancer" by a malcontent bottom feeder.

Andy being insulted for picking a horse every Thorograph player was using in the Derby who ran a totally credible 5th at 30-1.

A complete imbecile lamenting he didn't like the winner despite writing 5000 words about the race in the preceding 3 weeks then including some impertinent anecdote about Best Buy.

Complaints about the Preakness winner's name.

Complaints about the Belmont.

This thread is on fire!
To my knowledge, not many TG players used him on top in the Derby. Sometimes things like distance and surface preferences count more than any number.

And he does have a terrible name. ;-)
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
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