Classic Empire

barbaro111
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Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:04 am

Treve wrote:I feel like at this point they may as well just give him some time off on the farm and bring him back next year. Sometimes the best thing is allowing a horse to just be a horse...

heartily agree!
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Miss Woodford
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Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:56 pm

Treve wrote:I feel like at this point they may as well just give him some time off on the farm and bring him back next year. Sometimes the best thing is allowing a horse to just be a horse...
Or they could *gasp* geld him. He's got a history of acting up/refusing to work even when he's not hurt so he could use an attitude adjustment. Not gonna happen of course, he's too valuable.
sweettalk
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Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:59 am

aside from slow horses that are simply intact because of who mummy and daddy are, i have never seen a horse get so many "please geld him!" posts. first a foot abscess, and now because he's an individual with his own personality (which just happens to make it hard for his human handlers, though i'm sure "difficult" can be applied to many race horses).
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:30 am

Yeah, I don't get the push to geld the colt. His quirks and/or physical issues aren't so bad that his trainer can't work with him to get through them. And I've never read anything about him being mean or dangerous.
Maybe he might end up needing a spell from racing but, IMHO, the 'ultimate equipment change' isn't called for.
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Treve
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Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:59 am

Miss Woodford wrote:
Treve wrote:I feel like at this point they may as well just give him some time off on the farm and bring him back next year. Sometimes the best thing is allowing a horse to just be a horse...
Or they could *gasp* geld him. He's got a history of acting up/refusing to work even when he's not hurt so he could use an attitude adjustment. Not gonna happen of course, he's too valuable.
Breeding rights were already sold to Coolmore, pretty sure that'd be a severe breach of contract.
I see absolutely no reason to geld him. He's a G1 winner at 2 and 3, he's got a very strong pedigree, beautiful confirmation. That's already more than what most stallions standing at stud currently can say.
Given that his acting out has never been tied to sex hormones or coltish behaviour I'm not sure gelding would fix anything at all even if that were in Oxley's power to decide anymore. It's his personality, and geldings can be just as quirky or stubborn, so I'm actually mistified by this call to gelding him.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
Kay16
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Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:13 pm

There's no reason to geld him.

Sounds like they are keeping hope he'll tell them he's ready to go again this year, but they are listening to him so we'll see. If love for him to make it back this year but that gets more and more unlikely. At this point, there's not much left for him except races he won't be ready for and the big race none of the 3 year olds have a shot in unless something drastic happens.
stark
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Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:49 pm

Sunday Morning

caton bredar‏ @CBredar

@TVG @markecasse tells me Classic Empire trained well today in Ocala; Pa Derby still the target, needs everything to go right from here
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Treve
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Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:23 pm

I hope he makes it in tip top shape, but still, I wouldn't be opposed to him taking the rest of the year off...
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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CoronadosQuest
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Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:00 pm

I hope he figures it out! I got to visit him on Sunday (8/13) in Saratoga before he was shipped to Florida and he was pretty sweet.

Image
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Treve
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Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:13 pm

Great photo CQ! He has such an interesting and lovely head to look at.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
stark
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Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:24 pm

Classic Empire , the 2016 champion juvenile male for owner John Oxley, has been retired from racing and will stand at Coolmore America's Ashford Stud.

Trained by Mark Casse, Classic Empire had not raced since running second in the May 20 Preakness Stakes (G1). The son of Pioneerof the Nile was expected to be the favorite for the Belmont Stakes Presented by NYRA Bets (G1) but was forced to miss the final leg of the Triple Crown because of a foot abscess.

"Unfortunately, we just ran out of time to get him to the Breeders' Cup Classic (G1)," explained Casse. "I could never get him completely over his foot abscess and it wasn't possible to train him the way I needed in order to bring him back at the highest level which is where he deserved to be. He's an extremely talented horse that can do anything and he overcame a lot of adversity to achieve what he did. I still believe he was the most talented horse of his generation."

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... hford-stud
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Charlie
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Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:01 pm

That is unfortunate but can't say I am surprised, in the slightest.
sweettalk
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Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:42 pm

what a waste. would have liked to have seen him at 4. think there will be a big demand for him as is?
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Curtis
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Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:47 pm

Too bad there wasn't a Plan B--or I suppose by now Plans C or D--like the Malibu and then the Pegasus, or maybe there was and that didn't look possible either.
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Northport
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Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:24 pm

I was a fan of him as a racehorse... but from a breeding perspective... physically unsound and tendency to refuse to work, pass.
weeeeeeeee
Tessablue
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Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:08 pm

stark wrote: "Unfortunately, we just ran out of time to get him to the Breeders' Cup Classic (G1),"
The only "unfortunate" aspect of this situation is the apparent fact that they really were trying to get him to the Classic off zero preps. I've never felt so relieved to hear about a high-profile horse's premature retirement.
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Treve
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Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:56 pm

I don't think Abscesses are a genetic issue.
And they're claiming there wasn't enough time for the BCC but that he's currently travelling beautifully so I don't understand why they'd overlook other end of year G1s or even the Pegasus. Or you know, let him mature into a 4 year old that could strengthen his resumé en route to the 2018 BCC.
Unfortunate, and I'm sorely disappointed but not surprised.

As for the demand I don't think it'd be as hot as if he won as a 4 year old. You've got Cairo Prince who is rumoured to get a fee bump up to 25k and is hot hot hot at the sales, and of course you've got American Pharoah so you already have 2 sons of Pioneerof the Nile with more interesting credentials and credibility at the moment. There's also Social Inclusion standing in Florida. I guess you could say CE is on the same cross as American Pharoah with a stronger female family to back him up but that feels almost moot unless you're offering Classic Empire at a very discounted price. Kind of curious to see what fee they'll set.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Kurenai
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Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:09 am

It makes no sense to me that they retire him now and don't bring him back as a 4 yo. From an economical point of view it would boost his stud fee by a considerable amount and as Treve said, there's Cairo Prince and Pharoah already on the market.

My best guess is that they think it might reoccur / he maybe lost a step or two / or there are some other issues that would prevent him from racing another year.
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Flanders
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Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:13 am

We don't know what his stud deal said but I guarantee it said retires at end of 3yo year. When has Coolmore ever bought a horses breeding rights that they didn't retire at 3? Honestly when I see Coolmore has acquired X for future stud, I know they wont race past 3.
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bare it all
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Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:31 am

Kurenai wrote: My best guess is that they think it might reoccur / he maybe lost a step or two / or there are some other issues that would prevent him from racing another year.
My thought, aside from the obvious Coolmore connection, is maybe the colt doesn't want to be a racehorse or is a little difficult to put to task. I hate to use "headcase" but we have a horse with documented refusals to train and veering at the start of a race. I'm sure the Casse barn had little say in whether he continued on or not, but I'm wondering how much the colt's own mental makeup helped them retire him versus push to something like the Clark or the Pegasus.
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