Saratoga Breakdowns

Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby MySaladDays » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:39 pm

Here it is 2017........Meet is only 1/2 way thru and they are almost at the breakdown rate of the ENTIRE 2016 season. :o
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby stark » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:04 pm

MySaladDays wrote:
The skinny is there’s something demonstrably wrong with main track surface....."


Just curious how many fatalities have been on the main track surface versus the training track and the turf course?
Mornings vs. afternoons?
Heart attacks vs. leg injuries?

I have a hunch you've jumped to your conclusion, but if somebody has some data that would be helpful, thanks.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby Rick1323 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:17 pm

It is at 11 now against 14 for all of last year. It could still end up right around "normal". Even one is too many, but we all know how fragile these animals are.......
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby Lord Helpus » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:18 pm

Saratoga sits empty for 300+ days a year; it must be very hard to bring it back to 100% optimal condition since the base/dirt cannot settle that fast. It is hard to find a small area of base that has not completely packed down. If so, the horse did not take a bad step; it might have been the footing that did not support the hoof adequately.

Same with Del Mar.

I agree that some lower level horses run at Saratoga, even if not 100%, just so their owners can have a wonderful time, watching their own (claiming) horses run.
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby stark » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:00 pm

1. Lakalas, May 28, “collapsed and died after breezing” 4yo filly France shipper
2. Queen B, July 6, “fractured leg while breezing…ambulanced to clinic – euthanized” unraced
3. Wanztbwicked, July 22, “suffered an injury while breezing – euthanized on the track” $200K auction maiden for C. Brown, turfer.
4. Angels Seven, July 28, “pulled up, injury to LF leg – euthanized on the track” 9th maiden race at 57/1 for Zito
5. Howard Beach, July 29, “suffered a fracture to RF leg breezing and was euthanized” ran 2nd as fav in str mdn for Violette
6. Positive Waves, July 29, “suffered a fracture to his RF leg breezing – euthanized” $170K maiden with 2 starts for A. Dutrow
7. Brooklyn Major, July 31, “collapsed and died after the finish of the race” 9 races, first time in a maiden claimer for Charlton Baker
8. Marshall Plan, August 2, “fractured condylar bone while training – euthanized” $375K auction Mdn for McLaughlin/Stonestreet
9. Fall Colors, August 3, “horse fell at second fence, died on track” Stakes over fences for James Day
10.Munjaz, August 3, “was pulled up…vanned off – euthanized” Stakes for K. McLaughlin/Shadwell
11.Lakeside Sunset, August 5, “ambulanced off; fracture right hind leg – euthanized” $40 just claimed 7/15 by R. Diodoro
12.Unbroken Chain, August 6, “suffered a fatal musculoskeletal injury – euthanized” $40K claimer for Mark Casse
13.Sweetneida, August 11, “ambulanced off – euthanized” $12.5 claimer

I sure don't see any pattern....cheap horses with owners looking for free seats, main track races etc. Seems to be a mixed bag of turf/dirt/training track/general health.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby MySaladDays » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:48 pm

stark wrote:
MySaladDays wrote:
The skinny is there’s something demonstrably wrong with main track surface....."




I have a hunch you've jumped to your conclusion, but if somebody has some data that would be helpful, thanks.


MySaladDays wrote:John Pricci: "At last year’s Saratoga race meet, 14 horses suffered catastrophic injuries resulting in euthanasia Sadly, in 2017, the number of fatalities current stands at 11 and counting.

The skinny is there’s something demonstrably wrong with main track surface....."


Quotation marks are there for a reason. It was a quote. :)

I jumped to no conclusions except that there are a lot of breakdowns at SAR so far this meet, and I was asking what others thought about it.
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby Insane Crazy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:03 am

Admin wrote:I said this in the Del Mar thread. Horses are at an increased risk when they change track surfaces. That is undoubtedly part of the reason why we see an increase when horses move from where they're normally stabled for these boutique meets.

This is very true. It's true every year. But if the numbers continue to rise above what we've seen in recent memory (and a quick look at the NYS data says Toga usually sees 10-16 deaths per year), we could be looking at something well outside of the norm in terms of numbers. It would be hard to not wonder what is different about this year vs. the last handful. The only thing that really strikes me as a possible factor is what someone else wondered about cutting costs. That would impact all the tracks. Hrmmmm.

Like others said though, it could be a freak occurrence of a frontloaded number early in the meet. Watching with serious interest.
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby Somnambulist » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:55 pm

If this is due to a surface change why don't we see these types of numbers every time a new meet starts?
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby Still on the Farm » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:22 am

Insane Crazy wrote:
Admin wrote:I said this in the Del Mar thread. Horses are at an increased risk when they change track surfaces. That is undoubtedly part of the reason why we see an increase when horses move from where they're normally stabled for these boutique meets.

This is very true. It's true every year. But if the numbers continue to rise above what we've seen in recent memory (and a quick look at the NYS data says Toga usually sees 10-16 deaths per year), we could be looking at something well outside of the norm in terms of numbers. It would be hard to not wonder what is different about this year vs. the last handful. The only thing that really strikes me as a possible factor is what someone else wondered about cutting costs. That would impact all the tracks. Hrmmmm.

Like others said though, it could be a freak occurrence of a frontloaded number early in the meet. Watching with serious interest.


Good post. One observation is that some outfits, who really aren't known for losing horses, are doing just that. Is that due to random occurrence or root cause? I think the narrative being pushed that low level owners are demanding that unfit horses be raced for social purposes is simply ridiculous. The class diversity and recent racing/training records of the horses lost simply doesn't support that ignorant narrative.

I do think track condition needs OBJECTIVE study and not the preconceived notion that something is already wrong and just needs to be proven. The one day I would call into question was the morning where Violette and Dutrow had horses go down in the same vicinity on the main track, but again, was that due to random occurrence or a root cause? I temper that statement with the fact that I'm not a track superintendent, nor am I going to pretend to be one. I would trust the knowledge and expertise of the NYRA crew over what I know and certainly over the unqualified opinions of an internet forum.

As always, I wish for every horse to come back safe and sound.
Knowing how to read the Racing Form is not horsemanship.
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Re: Saratoga Breakdowns

Postby Old Bones » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:39 pm

I don't think the clay addition before the meet opened has been mentioned on this thread. Or I missed it. I had heard about it before I went up for Whitney weekend. Pricci mentions it in the article linked here.

If there was one theory resembling consensus it was that clay was added too late and there wasn’t enough time to allow the main track to settle.

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Saratog ... reakdowns/
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