Arrogate

Re: Arrogate

Postby Tessablue » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:03 pm

For whatever it's worth, 112 is just about Gun Runner's ceiling.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Apollo » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:07 am

I like that race. After two defeats Arrogate might be bettable in the Classic.

I don't care about current form. Not when talent level is obscured by current form.

When I loved to Las Vegas in 1984 it was immediately obvious that virtually every bettor was obsessed with current form. And not many of them were winning. Everyone was whining. So the easy conclusion was some type of disconnect going on, that the conventional wisdom was the one route not to take.

Arrogate at various points looked like a horse who had never run before, or who didn't understand the premise. If he runs mostly a straight line in the Classic, he should be fine. Not a heck of a lot to beat.

Best of all is we've removed the nonsense that Arrogate is superior to American Pharoah. That was comedic gold while it lasted.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Somnambulist » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:56 am

Apollo wrote:Best of all is we've removed the nonsense that Arrogate is superior to American Pharoah. That was comedic gold while it lasted.


One shouldn't say things are comedic gold while making statements of comedic gold.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Admin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:23 am

Northport wrote:
Squeaky wrote:I still think there is something physically wrong with Arro. Has nowhere near the same acceleration and fluidity of his stride as earlier in the year. I wonder if he tweaked something in Dubai and it has been bothering him since then. Seems like rads and a thorough ultrasound of his legs would be in order.


I would assume that a horse of his caliber would have these tests done after every race regardless of the finish. If something was physically wrong with Arrogate, they would have found it after his last race.


No one runs a complete physical after every race that I know of. Particularly if the exam includes a bone scan. Usually one wouldn't look if all is going along fine. You'd start looking if the horse seems off in any way including a performance that wasn't up to par. Then you may do a thorough exam (possibly including bone exam) as a matter of routine between campaigns. For example, we sent Songbird for a complete exam before she had her Winter break each of the past 2 years, and it was only through that exam we found that Songbird had bone bruising that went back a couple months including during her BC run. A little known fact to the general public is how incredible a vet Dr. Bramlage is, that he can spot lameness in a horse that eludes even the very best of trainers and track vets. I sure hope that there's some vet out there who can fill his shoes when he retires.

They declared Arrogate fine physically so fast after the last race (by Sunday), its basically not possible that he had a bone scan. I don't know where the nearest equipment is to Del Mar -- it may be up at Santa Anita.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Squeaky » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:53 am

Would love to see Bob fly out Dr. Bramlage to take a look at Arrogate. Agree he is at another level when it comes to equine lameness. The Prince can afford it.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Catalina » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:42 am

Admin wrote:They declared Arrogate fine physically so fast after the last race (by Sunday), its basically not possible that he had a bone scan. I don't know where the nearest equipment is to Del Mar -- it may be up at Santa Anita.


Alamo Pintado has bone scan capability, if they want a place close by.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby stark » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:57 am

Brad Free‏ @BradFree1 3h3 hours ago

Collected = 115 Beyer (career best) Pacific Classic win Sat DMR;
runner-up Arrogate = 114, likely favorite Breeders’ Cup Classic next start.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Squeaky » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:10 am

I wonder (speculation only) if Arro's lack of a turnout break on a farm after months of hard training and racing may have led to some bone bruising where the natural repair fell behind the bone breakdown, as Dr. Bramlage has talked about. I know he feels strongly about the importance of horses having pasture time to prevent and treat bone bruising. Standing in a stall all day is just not good for horses,but can't be helped at most racetracks. His reluctance to switch to his right lead during a recent work makes me wonder if there is a problem there, especially since he is such a big heavy horse.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Tessablue » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:15 am

Not at all surprised by the 115; it was a very strong race by the top two. Take Collected out and we're talking about how Arrogate won going away in strong time and is rounding back into form; take the San Diego out and we're discussing his trip relative to Collected and marveling that he got that close. Arrogate is held to stratospheric standards for a reason, but his 90% is still very good.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Somnambulist » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:25 am

I agree. That race was not bad by any means.
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