Arrogate

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Curtis
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm

Starine wrote:
Treve wrote:
Sparrow Castle wrote:Claire Novak-Crosby‏ @BH_CNovak
Arrogate will retire to @JuddmonteFarms in Lexington after his @BreedersCup Classic run, per release. Story soon @bloodhorse.
I mean, that has always been the plan hasn't it?
That was my reaction too.

The Bloodhorse article reads: "That's the greatest horse I've ever seen run," Baffert said of Arrogate.

But I still think American Pharoah was better. Oh well; Baffert would be the one to know.
Baffert made the "greatest horse" comment just after the DWC and has since backtracked on it. BH took it out of context to create comment fodder.
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Curtis
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:55 pm

Somnambulist wrote:Accomplishments and raw talent are not the same thing.
Both horses accomplished fairly amazing things with an economy of trips to the post. I think that's the true, objective comparison between the two.
Tessablue
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:00 pm

At 10 furlongs, A-game Arrogate would be competitive with any dirt horse who has ever lived, and I'm pretty sure Baffert knows it. It's sort of unfortunate that Arrogate came along when he did, because I think he would have been a lot more popular without the AP comparisons. Beating Chrome twice hasn't helped either. Oh well... come what may in the Classic, I'm grateful to have existed at the same time as this horse.
sweettalk
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:46 pm

Tessablue wrote:At 10 furlongs, A-game Arrogate would be competitive with any dirt horse who has ever lived, and I'm pretty sure Baffert knows it. It's sort of unfortunate that Arrogate came along when he did, because I think he would have been a lot more popular without the AP comparisons. Beating Chrome twice hasn't helped either. Oh well... come what may in the Classic, I'm grateful to have existed at the same time as this horse.
while you're technically correct, i have a hard time using the pegasus as a measure of anyone vs chrome. i do wonder what we'll think of him in 3 years or so if he doesn't win the classic (i know what we'll think if he does win, or at least i do - nothing but positive adjectives).
Tessablue
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 pm

sweettalk wrote:
Tessablue wrote:At 10 furlongs, A-game Arrogate would be competitive with any dirt horse who has ever lived, and I'm pretty sure Baffert knows it. It's sort of unfortunate that Arrogate came along when he did, because I think he would have been a lot more popular without the AP comparisons. Beating Chrome twice hasn't helped either. Oh well... come what may in the Classic, I'm grateful to have existed at the same time as this horse.
while you're technically correct, i have a hard time using the pegasus as a measure of anyone vs chrome. i do wonder what we'll think of him in 3 years or so if he doesn't win the classic (i know what we'll think if he does win, or at least i do - nothing but positive adjectives).
Yeah I don't really feel that it counts either, but I do wonder if those really disappointing/worrying efforts sometimes produce extra misplaced ire- Cigar and Skip Away, for example.

I don't know if Arrogate will win the Classic, but I truly hope he does. People like me will always bring him up in conversations about the best horses, but he deserves a lot more support than he gets (no matter which news site you're on, people love to brutalize him in the comments section), and it would be a real shame if he retired without a HOTY title to his name.
sweettalk
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:29 pm

wouldn't it? reminds me of game on dude. i hope he wins, too.

i have to think the ppl bashing him are the ones that just like to hate the popular horse, we all know at least one of those.
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Treve
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:39 pm

Without circling back too much, I agree talent and accomplishments aren't the same, and what constitutes greatness or "the best" largely depends on what you place value on (some people favour accomplishments, some favour raw talent and natural ability).
I was actually rooting for Arrogate in the Classic last year, because I believed what I saw in the Travers wasn't a fluke and I think, more importantly I wanted him to prove that. I just have a harder time placing him in terms of history because I really don't know what to think of his last efforts when compared to his previous ones, let alone other notable thoroughbreds past and present. One of the best, no question. One of the greatest? I think I'll need some time.
(And in general I find it difficult to rank and compare horses that have such different resumés as Arrogate and AP to begin with, I think both are freaks in totally different ways and both deserve more respect than the average comment section seems to afford them. Then again Chrome took a beating from the critics too, Chromies aside.)
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Apollo
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Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:29 am

I've always rooted for Arrogate since I knew he existed. I'll root for him one more time and in all probability wager on him in some form or another, depending on the matchup odds.

But I was hardly surprised at the twin defeats since I'm never going to confuse a late bloomer for an all timer. That's the sucker path.
Point Given
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Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:47 pm

Arrogate (4-Year-Old Colt)
Date: October 16, 2017
Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
Distance: Six Furlongs
Time: 1.13:20 Handily
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 5/12
Tessablue
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Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:45 pm

Video of the work- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wPB-tXFjd8

I thought it was very good and quite a lot better than his previous one. For all the talk of how much he hates Del Mar, his last race was good enough to win the Classic- so I expect any improvement to be very dangerous to his competitors.
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Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:58 pm

stark
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Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:56 pm

Bob Baffert tells @zoecadman that Arrogate has begun to regain his weight & hasn't been allowed to do much in the mornings by design.
https://twitter.com/WatchXBTV/status/920778997348184064
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Point Given
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Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:04 pm

Arrogate (4-Year-Old Colt)
Date: October 23, 2017
Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
Distance: Seven Furlongs
Time: 1.25:40 Handily
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 1/1

http://www.xbtv.com/video/workout/arrog ... 23rd-2017/
Tessablue
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Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:40 pm

A spectacular work to match his recent spectacular gallops. I'm really starting to think they are all running for second at this point.
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Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:04 pm

Bob's sticking needles into a wax figure of Del Mar, hoping for a tsunami to wash it away and force a transfer to SA. . .
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BaroqueAgain1
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Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:08 pm

Or pulling petals from a daisy, chanting 'loves Del Mar, loves it not, loves Del Mar, loves it not...' If the last petal goes on 'loves Del Mar,' the Big Grey Train is good to go. :P :lol:
Somnambulist
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Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:20 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Or pulling petals from a daisy, chanting 'loves Del Mar, loves it not, loves Del Mar, loves it not...' If the last petal goes on 'loves Del Mar,' the Big Grey Train is good to go. :P :lol:
They were saying how he looked like crap before those races though. Or maybe this is my revisionist history remembering that.
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Tessablue
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Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:07 pm

Reports were mixed before the San Diego- I thought he looked good, others correctly didn't- and pretty poor before the Pacific Classic. I did not think he would run as well as he did in that race, and I'm starting to rethink the Del Mar narrative. If a horse isn't 100%, he isn't 100%- and if you knocked 10% off of Arrogate's best performance, you get an effort just like that Pacific Classic. I could certainly be wrong but I think an argument can also be made that the surface doesn't even matter, because if he improves just a length or two from the PC he won't get beat anyways.

Anyways don't take my word for it, I'd just recommend comparing these works and drawing your own conclusions:

An analagous work from before last year's BC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0BFzJgLmRg
His final work before the San Dieogo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzyCWuLGVSc
His final work before the PC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2lESmfLVWE
Today's work: http://www.xbtv.com/video/workout/arrog ... 23rd-2017/
Tessablue
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Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:12 pm

TVG did the work for me... here's a nice side-by-side comparison of his last major BC work for this year vs. last year.

https://twitter.com/TVG/status/924295340798361602

Also his recent gallops have been amazing. Just fingers crossed he stays this good for another week.
Point Given
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:52 pm

Arrogate (4-Year-Old Colt)
Date: October 30, 2017
Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
Distance: Five Furlongs
Time: 1.00:00 Handily
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 1/19

Arrogate Shows Competitiveness in Final BC Work
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... al-bc-work
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