Arrogate

Re: Arrogate

Postby Curtis » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm

Starine wrote:
Treve wrote:
Sparrow Castle wrote:Claire Novak-Crosby‏ @BH_CNovak
Arrogate will retire to @JuddmonteFarms in Lexington after his @BreedersCup Classic run, per release. Story soon @bloodhorse.


I mean, that has always been the plan hasn't it?


That was my reaction too.

The Bloodhorse article reads: "That's the greatest horse I've ever seen run," Baffert said of Arrogate.

But I still think American Pharoah was better. Oh well; Baffert would be the one to know.

Baffert made the "greatest horse" comment just after the DWC and has since backtracked on it. BH took it out of context to create comment fodder.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Curtis » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:55 pm

Somnambulist wrote:Accomplishments and raw talent are not the same thing.

Both horses accomplished fairly amazing things with an economy of trips to the post. I think that's the true, objective comparison between the two.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Tessablue » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:00 pm

At 10 furlongs, A-game Arrogate would be competitive with any dirt horse who has ever lived, and I'm pretty sure Baffert knows it. It's sort of unfortunate that Arrogate came along when he did, because I think he would have been a lot more popular without the AP comparisons. Beating Chrome twice hasn't helped either. Oh well... come what may in the Classic, I'm grateful to have existed at the same time as this horse.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby sweettalk » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:46 pm

Tessablue wrote:At 10 furlongs, A-game Arrogate would be competitive with any dirt horse who has ever lived, and I'm pretty sure Baffert knows it. It's sort of unfortunate that Arrogate came along when he did, because I think he would have been a lot more popular without the AP comparisons. Beating Chrome twice hasn't helped either. Oh well... come what may in the Classic, I'm grateful to have existed at the same time as this horse.

while you're technically correct, i have a hard time using the pegasus as a measure of anyone vs chrome. i do wonder what we'll think of him in 3 years or so if he doesn't win the classic (i know what we'll think if he does win, or at least i do - nothing but positive adjectives).
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Tessablue » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 pm

sweettalk wrote:
Tessablue wrote:At 10 furlongs, A-game Arrogate would be competitive with any dirt horse who has ever lived, and I'm pretty sure Baffert knows it. It's sort of unfortunate that Arrogate came along when he did, because I think he would have been a lot more popular without the AP comparisons. Beating Chrome twice hasn't helped either. Oh well... come what may in the Classic, I'm grateful to have existed at the same time as this horse.

while you're technically correct, i have a hard time using the pegasus as a measure of anyone vs chrome. i do wonder what we'll think of him in 3 years or so if he doesn't win the classic (i know what we'll think if he does win, or at least i do - nothing but positive adjectives).
Yeah I don't really feel that it counts either, but I do wonder if those really disappointing/worrying efforts sometimes produce extra misplaced ire- Cigar and Skip Away, for example.

I don't know if Arrogate will win the Classic, but I truly hope he does. People like me will always bring him up in conversations about the best horses, but he deserves a lot more support than he gets (no matter which news site you're on, people love to brutalize him in the comments section), and it would be a real shame if he retired without a HOTY title to his name.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby sweettalk » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:29 pm

wouldn't it? reminds me of game on dude. i hope he wins, too.

i have to think the ppl bashing him are the ones that just like to hate the popular horse, we all know at least one of those.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Treve » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:39 pm

Without circling back too much, I agree talent and accomplishments aren't the same, and what constitutes greatness or "the best" largely depends on what you place value on (some people favour accomplishments, some favour raw talent and natural ability).
I was actually rooting for Arrogate in the Classic last year, because I believed what I saw in the Travers wasn't a fluke and I think, more importantly I wanted him to prove that. I just have a harder time placing him in terms of history because I really don't know what to think of his last efforts when compared to his previous ones, let alone other notable thoroughbreds past and present. One of the best, no question. One of the greatest? I think I'll need some time.
(And in general I find it difficult to rank and compare horses that have such different resumés as Arrogate and AP to begin with, I think both are freaks in totally different ways and both deserve more respect than the average comment section seems to afford them. Then again Chrome took a beating from the critics too, Chromies aside.)
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Apollo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:29 am

I've always rooted for Arrogate since I knew he existed. I'll root for him one more time and in all probability wager on him in some form or another, depending on the matchup odds.

But I was hardly surprised at the twin defeats since I'm never going to confuse a late bloomer for an all timer. That's the sucker path.
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Point Given » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:47 pm

Arrogate (4-Year-Old Colt)
Date: October 16, 2017
Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
Distance: Six Furlongs
Time: 1.13:20 Handily
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 5/12
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Re: Arrogate

Postby Tessablue » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:45 pm

Video of the work- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wPB-tXFjd8

I thought it was very good and quite a lot better than his previous one. For all the talk of how much he hates Del Mar, his last race was good enough to win the Classic- so I expect any improvement to be very dangerous to his competitors.
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