sweettalk wrote:while i am a little disappointed he was gelded (not gonna lie, and i absolutely understand and don't disagree with the decision, though lesser horses have been given a chance), i really hope he excels in his new career. it worked very well for Mr Hot Stuff in the jumps races, so i have reason to be optimistic (and i will be, dang it!)
i literally said i didn't disagree. i can be bummed a little, as a fangirl, but still agree with their decision from a realistic breeding standpoint. they gelded souper spectacular, and if coz gets gelded too, it's a bummer but i understand and don't disagree.
the only stakes horses i saw from vertigineux's kids were one from where's bailey (G2 winner), and one from treasure trail (IRE G3 winner, G1 placed in the US). the rest of the grandkids seem to be kicking around in lower level races, tho i did see a winner in japan, and an ungraded stakes placed in russia.
that doesn't scream "gotta breed em all" to me, but you seem to know a lot more about it than i do. woulda liked a more in depth analysis. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i did also say i hope eb is successful, instead of being sour grapes. i wouldn't risk my money on her, personally, but someone is and i genuinely hope she produces well for them.
Ok. Perhaps Zenyatta will have a son down the road that DOES deserve to go to stud. I would think Ziconic would have more appeal than Coz.
The thing with well bred and well related mares, they will always retain their value and they will always be bred. There is zero chance someone is not going to breed any of Zenyatta's sisters. There are a lot more mares who shouldn't have foals than ones from this family.
As for Vertigineux's daughters, they really don't have a lot of starters among them.
Where's Bailey has 2 winners from 4 starters(all her foals of racing age), a G2SW and an allowance level horse. She has not produced a foal since 2013 though.
Balance has 1 winner from 5 starters, 6 foals of RA. Her best was Japanese based Go Nineteen who won 3 of 7 starts through 2014 but hasn't raced since. Her current 2yo hasn't started.
Zenyatta who has 0 winners from 2 starters. She had some bad luck with her War Front filly dying as a weanling and her War Front colt dying shortly after being born.
Treasure Trail who has 2 winners from 3 starters, 4 foals of RA, including G3SW Long Island Sound. Her current 2yo hasn't started.
Another daughter, Pressurizing will have her first foal of racing age in 2018.
So 5 winners from 14 starters(16 of RA), 2 stakes winners(both being GSW). While the winners to foals of racing age isn't great (31.25%), all their foals have started, except 2 current 2yos and sometimes this line needs a little bit of time. That is a positive that they are making it to the track. The SW to foals of racing age is also 12.5%. I see no downside in breeding these mares.
Now if I go look at say the 2017 Keeneland September yearling sales results and pick some of the low price horses who RNA'd under $5,000 or who sold for under $5,000, I guarantee I will find you a mare that shouldn't be bred. One that you have to go back to the 4th dam to find a black type horse.